Help with a 1887 Remingto 12 ga

[Viking Guy]

Gents,

A work buddy asked me to take a look at this shotgun for him. The problem, when sighting down the barrel, is that the sight is at about the 11 O'clock to 1130 O'clock position. The bead shows no evidence of ever having been removed and repositioned. It appears the barrel has been over torqued into the action resulting in the sight being canted left (as sighted down the barrel).

My question is, would it be possible to attempt to back out the barrel just enough to align the sight? Overall, this piece is in fine shape with the blue having turned to brown. The action functions well and lock up is positive though I have not chambered a shell as of yet.

Also, this friend had one of these when he was a kid and says he shot modern shot shells through it. In my reading, I believe this to be a Damascus barrel designed for black powder though the RST Falcon Lites appear to be a safe and suitable modern alternative. I'm reluctant to tell him he may shoot standard modern low base shells.

T'd appreciate any and all thoughts and advice.

TIA,
VG

[kcw]

Gents,

A work buddy asked me to take a look at this shotgun for him. The problem, when sighting down the barrel, is that the sight is at about the 11 O'clock to 1130 O'clock position. The bead shows no evidence of ever having been removed and repositioned. It appears the barrel has been over torqued into the action resulting in the sight being canted left (as sighted down the barrel).

My question is, would it be possible to attempt to back out the barrel just enough to align the sight? Overall, this piece is in fine shape with the blue having turned to brown. The action functions well and lock up is positive though I have not chambered a shell as of yet.

Also, this friend had one of these when he was a kid and says he shot modern shot shells through it. In my reading, I believe this to be a Damascus barrel designed for black powder though the RST Falcon Lites appear to be a safe and suitable modern alternative. I'm reluctant to tell him he may shoot standard modern low base shells.

T'd appreciate any and all thoughts and advice.

TIA,
VG

First of all, if you're idea is that the gun may be potentially shootable, I wouldn't mess with the bead until the gun is patterned @ 16 yds. The bead may be where it's at for a reason. Note that the length of American blackpowder chambers was 2 & 5/8", although many were opened to the 2 & 3/4" standard of the time in the 1930's as blackpowder ammo was phased out. This was done to my great grandfather's Belgian SxS hammer gun. At the time it was done the smith advised the use of one ounce - 3 dram eqv. smokeless shotshells. The family has successfully adhered to that advice ever since. Note that a 2 & 3/4" round will chamber in a 2 & 5/8" chamber, HOWEVER the opened end of the longer round will lay over the sharp 90 degree step at the forward end of the shorter chamber, causing something of a pressure raising constriction as the charge passes from the casing to the barrel. If you find that this gun still has the shorter chamber I might recommend the use of the 2.5" "low pressure" rounds offered by POLYWAD INC.

[kcw]

It should be noted that the Belgian SxS mentioned in my previous post has a "Royal Damascus" FLUID STEEL barrel with Belgian black powder proofs. That being said, Damascus barrels were commonly opened to the 2 & 3/4" standard. However, considering the nature of Damascus construction, I think that I'd stick with the commercial "low pressure" rounds made for older guns even if you find that it has been opened up at some point.

[Viking Guy]

kcw,

Thanks so much for the reply especially regarding 2 5/8" vs 2 3/4" issue. To be honest, beyond thinking about the sight alignment, I'd not considered the shell lengths. Since I do not own any shot shell gauges, I believe I'll have to find a smith in the area that does have them. I did tell my friend that regardless of what he shot in the past in his previous gun, shooting modern loads would not be (in my opinion) prudent. He reluctantly agreed.

Since I now have the gun at home and have been able to take a closer look, here are a few things I've found. The piece was built in 1892. Here's the odd thing. I was taking a look as to how to remove the forearms and just could not see a way to do that. I started looking at schematics and they show cross bolts/screws through the forearm pieces. Well, this has no bolts or holes for bolts....the forearm is glued to the mag tube! Apparently, these are replacement forearms from who knows when.

This is going to be fun so any more tips will be very welcome.

Thanks,
VG

[Viking Guy]

Brain gassed this post...it's a Winchester 1887.

[kcw]

Brain gassed this post...it's a Winchester 1887.

A WINCHESTER model 1887! You had me going for a while there. From my limited research into the 1887 the Damascus barrel was offered only as an expensive "upgrade", otherwise the barrel would be of "fluid" steel, as with the previously mentioned Belgian SxS. As fluid steel barrels (aka: barrels made out of steel) came into production they were often looked down upon by the traditionalists in the gun community. That's why bluing techniques which printed a swirl design to imitate the swirls seen in Damascus steel were used on popular priced guns. Those bluing swirls ( advertised as Royal Damascus) can still be seen in the finish under the fore stock of my great grandfather's Belgian gun. If your 1887 has fluid steel barrel which appears to be in good condition I don't see why the special low pressure commercial loads previously mentioned couldn't be used. Of course the only way to be certain which barrel is on there is to buff off a bit of finish (preferably under the fore stock). If it's Damascus the tell tale "swirl" design in the barrel wall will be evident. If it just polishes up nice and mirror bright the it's the more modern "fluid" steel. It should be noted that the later Winchester model 1893 pump gun has 2 & 5/8" chambers, so I don't think that there's any doubt that your gun came from the factory with the same length chamber and proofed for black powder.

[Emri]

According to Norm Flayderman the 1887 was designed for black powder loads. I would not attempt to fire one even with BP. You can buy a modern shotgun for under $300 new and shoot it to your hearts content.

FWIW,

Emri

[PhillipM]

There is a new, safe to fire replica.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/century-international-arms-jw-2000-coach-side-by-side-shotgun-12-gauge-20-barrel-3-chamber-walnut-stained-hardwood-stock-sg1090-n-787450008571.do