How Far Are Rebuilds Rebuilt??

[Punch the Clown]

Okay, I have a really nice 03A4. The stock is nicely cartouched with a boxed AA stamp with a slightly askew C following. Upon de-preservating (new word) and close inspection I found that all parts are correct with the exception of the trigger, which is black but not that two-tone Remington look, and the ejector which is unmarked. The handguard ring is marked RP and the trigger guard is missing the "R" logo although there is a faint ring where the "R" stamp should be.It is GI absolutely. The park is that beautiful green and the barrel is correct both as an A4 and matching the receiver.
Bottom line. How in-depth were rebuilds re-built? My AA marked 1911 has the original frame and that's about it. Would an inspector replace a binding ejector or a bent trigger guard and call it a day? With minor repairs like this would it still warrant an "AA C" stock stamp? Would a funtion test and detailed inspection earn an "AA" stamp? Thanks guys. Stu

[Art]

It depends.

If the rifle is in truly rough shape the only part of the original may be the receiver. Even if it is in excellent shape it's going to be disassembled and there is no guarantee that every part put back on it is going to be "original," though the barrel will be in that case. Remember that the majority of '03A3s are Remington so sheer dumb luck can result in a wholesale replacement which can also result in a "correct rifle." If the rifle went in for overhaul it was almost surely completely refinished hence the "beautiful green" which by the way is not how an original looked when it left the Remington plant. I also have a really pretty Remington '03A3 with the original barrel which measures "1" muzzle wear on a guage. Just looking at it you'd think it just left the factory but it is a rebuilt and is all Remington except for the Smith Corona trigger guard/floorplate assembly.

In other words....an arsenal re do is an arsenal re do.

[chuckindenver]

usually, if rebuilt.
the rifle was completely taken down, reparked, broken or worn parts replaced,
if the barrel was out of spec, it was replaced, if not left in place.
assembled and put back in service.
luck seems to effect parts being correct ect,

[PhillipM]

Some brand new 03A3's were simply inspected and got a rebuild stamp.

[Punch the Clown]

Everything seems to not cry out rebuild. All the bands and swivels are blued as is the buttplate, the entire bolt is blue/black with the exception of the safety which is parked, trigger is two-tone "R" marked, scope base is staked only once and it is shimmed. I still have that pesky "AA" stamp though. No matter what I am pleased with this rifle and it is not getting sold in my lifetime.

[Sunray]

The beautiful green is actually caused by a chemical reaction between the Cosmoline and parkerizing from long term storage. No such thing as green Parkerizing. Have to look at mine, but I think the whole thing is black. 1944 manufacture.
"...barrel is correct..." Receiver have the right S/N too?
Anyway, to rebuild or not to rebuild by government arsenals was about cost. If it was going to cost too much in time or money, the whole thing would be scrapped. Or sent to the DPing bin. 'When' the thing arrived in the shop would matter too.
"...Punch the Clown..." Great UN.

[Punch the Clown]

"...Punch the Clown..." Great UN.

I did it for the CMP forum. It went right over the head of most people there. After 10+ years I was banned from the CMP for life for some heretical remarks. Their loss.

[Vern Humphrey]

usually, if rebuilt.
the rifle was completely taken down, reparked, broken or worn parts replaced,
if the barrel was out of spec, it was replaced, if not left in place.
assembled and put back in service.
luck seems to effect parts being correct ect,
As the rifles were disassembled, the parts were inspected and those passing inspection placed in bins -- all extractors in one bin, all bolts in another, all sears in a third, and so on. When the rifles were re-assembled, the workers simply reached in the appropriate bin, pulled out a part at random and went on to the next bin,

[Col. Colt]

If it came through CMP or DCM hands, that can add another level of "possibilities". I have a PERFECT, 100% New H&R from DCM - NO metal or finish wear, receiver right lug corner still sharp, ALL Correct parts - in a beat up, Crappy used stock - and it came out of the DCM box that way! Like someone realized, after pulling it down that it was Brand New - and just dropped it back into the first stock in the pile.... CC

[PhillipM]

If it came through CMP or DCM hands, that can add another level of "possibilities". I have a PERFECT, 100% New H&R from DCM - NO metal or finish wear, receiver right lug corner still sharp, ALL Correct parts - in a beat up, Crappy used stock - and it came out of the DCM box that way! Like someone realized, after pulling it down that it was Brand New - and just dropped it back into the first stock in the pile.... CC

Maybe and maybe not. The CMP received new H&R's without wood from the army several years ago, put wood on them and sold them.

[jgaynor]

Everything seems to not cry out rebuild. All the bands and swivels are blued as is the buttplate, the entire bolt is blue/black with the exception of the safety which is parked, trigger is two-tone "R" marked, scope base is staked only once and it is shimmed. I still have that pesky "AA" stamp though. No matter what I am pleased with this rifle and it is not getting sold in my lifetime.

Having studied a lot of A4's I suggest as a general rule the nicer the condition the more likely the rifle has been rebuilt.

It sounds like your rifles finishes are correct for an original so some additional questions remain:

1 Are there any traces of the original inspection/acceptance stamps remaining?
2. How about the sub inspector's marks forward of the magazine?
3. Is there a punch mark on th underside of the barrel about an inch or so behind the muzzle?
4. Are there 0, 1 or 2 firing proof marks on the grip or wrist of the stock?
5. Is the stock a "c" grip or "scant" grip?

The minimal level of overhaul was a C&R (Clean and Repair). Rifles would be inspected, cleaned, minor parts replaced from new or useable supplies, then dipped in preservative and stored until needed again.

[Punch the Clown]

Having studied a lot of A4's I suggest as a general rule the nicer the condition the more likely the rifle has been rebuilt.

It sounds like your rifles finishes are correct for an original so some additional questions remain:

1 Are there any traces of the original inspection/acceptance stamps remaining?
2. How about the sub inspector's marks forward of the magazine?
3. Is there a punch mark on th underside of the barrel about an inch or so behind the muzzle?
4. Are there 0, 1 or 2 firing proof marks on the grip or wrist of the stock?
5. Is the stock a "c" grip or "scant" grip?

The minimal level of overhaul was a C&R (Clean and Repair). Rifles would be inspected, cleaned, minor parts replaced from new or useable supplies, then dipped in preservative and stored until needed again.

1.The RA, FJA and crossed cannons are all there and clear
2.All the sub-inspectors marks are present and clear
3.There is a punch mark on the bottom of the barrel
4.There is only 1 firing proof on the wrist
5. It is a "C" stock

Stu

[Col. Colt]

Maybe and maybe not. The CMP received new H&R's without wood from the army several years ago, put wood on them and sold them.

Phil, this particular H&R DCM gun was received over twenty years ago direct from the Army (in the US mail!), nothing to do with CMP and their current ways of doing business, volunteer work force, etc. But perhaps DCM did exactly the same thing, "back in the day"....

As regards the 03A4, it would be interesting to know if it was a DCM/CMP purchase as well. The more hands have been on a historical artifact, the more questions can creep in. CC

[jgaynor]

I don't believe the DCM had any facilities or personnel to speak of outside of a relatively small office staff. Any work (like packing and shipping was done at government arsenals or depots like Letterkenny, Rock Island etc. Firearms were not routinely rebuilt or repaired. Any work of that type was to be accomplished by the ultimate purchaser.
The only notable exception I am aware of was the instance where then Congressman John F Kennedy purchased an M1 Rifle. Somewhere along the paper trail his name was recognized. When rifle came up it was a dog so someone arranged for it to receive some considerable TLC before being delivered.

[jgaynor]

1.The RA, FJA and crossed cannons are all there and clear
2.All the sub-inspectors marks are present and clear
3.There is a punch mark on the bottom of the barrel
4.There is only 1 firing proof on the wrist
5. It is a "C" stock

Stu

Stu, it would appear your rifle was only lightly used then sent to a depot or arsenal for a basic overhaul (probably the "C&R" mentioned above). When, how and under what circumstances the "rebuild" stamps were applied seemed to vary over time.

PS I should have mentioned in my first post that we have have seen numerous examples where rifles were issued, used, rebuilt snd reissued and used again. In theory when all the shooting stops the rifles would have gone for one final rebuild and on to storage. Number of factors complicate the issue. I have an A4 that was issued to a foreign government and used by them. It ultimately made its way back to the US by way of the surplus arms trade. So the traditional steps can at times be bypassed.

Regards,

Jim

[Punch the Clown]

Thanks Jim