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Sportsdad60
07-28-2016, 09:10
Thank you all for your advice on BP loading !
Started the BP journey with setting up for .45-70 first before I move on to Dad's .45-75 cartridge loads for his Winchester 1876 rifle sometime in the future.
This first BP load I used the following:
Starline Brass
Federal Magnum primer
500 gr bullet
This 500 grain bullet is made by "The Bullet Man" in Montana. He claims "Duplicate 45-70 Gov. 500 gn bullets. These are cast in a soft alloy of about BHN-9 and sized to .459" diameter. This design is our copy of the original arsenal design shown in the picture. They are cast identical to the original arsenal bullets recovered in the Fort Buford Fort Union area of eastern Montana. This is a replica design. This bullet loaded to between 1270 and 1330 fps will regulate to the original Trapdoor Springfield issue sights at all ranges the sight is calibrated for."
I wanted to start with about 62 approx in volume. The powder used is an older unopened can of Dupont FFg that came with this rifle. I validated it was BP and that it would burn :), you can click this link to see.
https://vimeo.com/176676475
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-tSmthWT/0/X2/Powder%20Measure-X2.jpg

I built a drop tube to assist in compacting the powder to prevent air pockets. Instead of eye screws to hold the 24" of brass tube, I went with a combination of a nylon strap supported by a washer and rubber grommet. It has a gasket around the brass tube to make it adjustable too.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-qL6HxcD/0/O/BP3.jpg

I drilled a couple of holes in the base plate just to keep the Valved flask and powder measure in place when not in use.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-pRPghsF/0/O/BP4.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-bTCf2gJ/0/O/BP5.jpg

I used a .060 vegetable .45 dia wad. These were relatively inexpensive. After loading the BP into the casing, this wad placed on top. I then used a Montana Black Powder Compression die to push the wad down another .150
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-x72Q5GJ/0/O/BP8.jpg

As you can see, I went beyond the max 2.795 to 2.835. The reason being is I took a friends advice (Thks Vic) and compressed it about .150 after dropping the powder in. I was careful not to 'crush' the powder as suggested. I also added a taper crimp in a separate stage from the bullet seating.
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-9MV9rh8/0/O/BP7.jpg

How am I doing? I don't know. We'll find out Saturday!
mannparks
07-29-2016, 07:22
Hey it looks like you got a great set up there good luck have fun be safe
Major Tom
07-29-2016, 10:14
Nice set up! I built a powder drop too from 24 inch lenght of copper tube with a small powder funnel epoxied to the top. For filler, I used an old pillow stuffing. I do load 70gr. BP under the 500gr. bullet, but, recoil is brutal. I don't use a crimp as my trapdoor is singly loaded. I also weigh my BP charges.
Sportsdad60
07-29-2016, 01:36
Nice set up! I built a powder drop too from 24 inch lenght of copper tube with a small powder funnel epoxied to the top. For filler, I used an old pillow stuffing. I do load 70gr. BP under the 500gr. bullet, but, recoil is brutal. I don't use a crimp as my trapdoor is singly loaded. I also weigh my BP charges.

Is your trapdoor a modern repro or vintage?

I figured with my first loads I'd use store-bought wads. I'll find something more economical in the future.
I add a "Kiss Crimp", crimped just enough so that the compressed black powder doesn't push the bullet back up at all.
Regarding recoil, I bought a custom made butt stock cover ($40) and put a pussy pad inside it (you can see it in the lower left, barely)
Now I can shoot a hundred rounds if I choose to. No more shoulder ouchies! :)
The Winchester Rifle may have won the west, but the Springfield Model 1973 FED the West!

https://photos.smugmug.com/1873-Springfield-Trapdoor-45/n-gxR9F/i-Nh38TNW/0/M/i-Nh38TNW-M.jpg
Sportsdad60
07-30-2016, 06:05
Range report: First black powder.
First, the video. :) Readers Digest version. If you care for a range report read beyond the link to video.
https://vimeo.com/176887679

Range Report:
5 rds of each 62 and 65 volume. (10 rds total)
Observations:

The "Smoke" wasn't impressive as I thought it would be but after reviewing the video I realized what everyone else was seeing. Very cool!

62 gr of Dupont FFg were all over the place. 65 gr of same powder things improved!!

I first had a great grouping of 65 so I'm confident 69-70 would be the best in the future, (of which 30 I've loaded this afternoon in 68-70 volume grs.

Photo directly below is that of grouping (eek! not as accurate as Missouri Bullets in 405 with AA5744) and I'm still working the load. (bumping to 68-70 volume)


All shots were with Notch's custom Titanium front sight replacement to hold the trapdoor on target at 100 yds. (This site is .350 from base of barrel to top. (Stock sight is .275)

Grouping of 5 shots (1 test shot with 405) using 65 gr volume FFg and 500 grain bullet. Setting on the Buffington was set at 200 yrds. (Extra tall front sight allows for min buff mark of 200 to be used on 100 yd range thanks to the new front sights)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-gHqfSMh/0/O/BP%20grouping.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-WwSfV5g/0/O/BP%20results1.jpg

I dropped each BP spent casing into a milk jug of warm water and dish soap for easier processing. I also ran a few Butter Bore patches down the barrel before I proceed to smokeless rounds. That first patch , bottom, came out awfully dirty. Normal for BP from my research. :)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Black-Powder/i-sz42rj3/0/O/BP%20results6.jpg


Summary:

Working up a 68-70 gr volume cartridge. I feel confident that the 500 grain will perform better with the powder that it's suppose to have behind it.
Sportsdad60
09-06-2016, 09:44
Some chrono data from the Pyrodex RS Select and 405 gr Missouri bullet, with 70 grains of powder.
Amazing how little variance there was! It is more consistent than AA5744.

Description: 405 gr 45/70 BP
Notes 1: 63 deg no wind
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 405
Altitude (FT): 700
Temp: 63 °F
BP: 29.89 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
4 1346 0.00 0.00
3 1364 0.00 0.00
2 1361 0.00 0.00
1 1368 0.00 0.00
Average: 1359.75
StdDev: 9.60
Min: 1346
Max: 1368
Spread: 22
True MV: 1359.75
Shots/sec: 0.02
Group Size (IN): 1.750 @ 100 yards
S.A. Boggs
09-10-2016, 03:12
In my younger days several buddies and I use to shoot a BP cannon with Dupont. Wish I had kept the cans! $3.75 was a lot of $$ back then and subsequently we didn't shoot much. It wasn't very big, 23mm if I remember right. The cannon was made by Bill Large and we fired it with a #10 cap. Fully loaded it would bounce when fired and emit a large amount of smoke. Have you thought about using Pyrodex or a more modern propellant? BP is fun, in the spring after I recuperate I am going into handgun. Didn't see you are already using pyrodex.
Sam
AZshooter
01-24-2017, 07:31
70 gr RS by weight or by BP powder measure volume?


Some chrono data from the Pyrodex RS Select and 405 gr Missouri bullet, with 70 grains of powder.
Amazing how little variance there was! It is more consistent than AA5744.

Description: 405 gr 45/70 BP
Notes 1: 63 deg no wind
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 405
Altitude (FT): 700
Temp: 63 °F
BP: 29.89 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
4 1346 0.00 0.00
3 1364 0.00 0.00
2 1361 0.00 0.00
1 1368 0.00 0.00
Average: 1359.75
StdDev: 9.60
Min: 1346
Max: 1368
Spread: 22
True MV: 1359.75
Shots/sec: 0.02
Group Size (IN): 1.750 @ 100 yards
Major Tom
01-28-2017, 07:02
I load BP for my original M1884 rifle trapdoor using the volume BP scale. 70 gr. BP down a 24 inch drop tube, compress the powder so that a 500 gr. bullet just compresses the BP a tad more, no crimp. Brutal recoil however. I also load 60 gr. BP under a 405 gr. bullet and use a wad over the powder and compress it like above. A lot easier on the shoulder!