Springfield Trapdoor 24" Carbine

[joemel12]

Hello to all. I'm not a frequent poster here but know this is the site to come with questions.

I'm looking at an alleged experimental 24" carbine. The stock no longer carries a distinguishable proof mark or cartouche. I've gotten help with researches through Flayderman's and SRS. SRS reports the following on her SN:

3354##..... 98 CO C 3RD NC COL'D INF

The researcher states SRS reports this as rifle and not a carbine. A "side by side"comparison of the piece and illustration in Flaydrerman's march her up very well. The sight is marked XC as well.She's wearing the correct slings and an 1873 receiver.

What else would I be looking for to authenticate? It is not currently owned by a collector.

Thanks,
Joe

[Johnny P]

If you are looking for help the full serial number would be the first place to start.

[Tom Trevor]

Go to trapdoorcollector.com and scroll down the home page to the arms list and look at 1886 rifle its the XC you may have seen. Just compare the features and these sell in the 4-5 K range these days if you are going to make him an offer. Hope this helps.

[Dick Hosmer]

That IS the correct general range for the XC, and, to the reviewer, it MAY (with its' nearly full stock) have been considered a "rifle".

Does the rear sight match the barrel PERFECTLY for patina and color? An obvious mismatch would be a serious clue. There should also be a slight 'ring' on the face of the muzzle crown, as the regular carbine cutter was used on the longer (slightly fatter) barrel.

That model lives or dies by the stock, which is unique and cannot be faked from any other model. It will either by right, or hand-carved by Bubba; there is no middle ground. A missing cartouche is not uncommon. The breechblock should be dated 1873, not 1884 as might be expected.

[joemel12]

I'm trying to help y'all help me by attaching pics but I'm doing something wrong. So here's a link to what I have copied into Jouster's attachment page.


http://www.jouster.com/forums/newattachment.php?do=assetmanager&values[t]=59415&contenttypeid=1&poststarttime=1469827581&posthash=fb0b5622835ea585c75c5e85b81f649b&insertinline=1


thanks again,
Joe

[joemel12]

Here's another link to photos.


http://imgur.com/ONhEjOt

[joemel12]

If you are looking for help the full serial number would be the first place to start.

Here's what was offered to me via SRS:
SN 335495

98 CO C 3RD NC COL'D INF

[Dick Hosmer]

Was there only one picture?

Even in small scale, the arm does look correct from what I can see.

[joemel12]

Was there only one picture?

Even in small scale, the arm does look correct from what I can see.

Sir,
Here the link to few more to include sight, stock and breech lock.

http://imgur.com/a/18T3n

also the correct SN is 335459

thanks again Mr.Hosmer

Joe

[m1903rifle]

Looks like there are a couple in the same range:

335493 86X 11/21/88 CO B 2ND CAV
335495 84R 98 CO C 3RD NC COL'D INF
335500 86X 11/21/88 CO B 2ND CAV

[joemel12]

Looks like there are a couple in the same range:

335493 86X 11/21/88 CO B 2ND CAV
335495 84R 98 CO C 3RD NC COL'D INF
335500 86X 11/21/88 CO B 2ND CAV

Thanks 1903. Question,the R is for rifle and x is for?

[joemel12]

one more attempt pics

[Dick Hosmer]

Beyond the obviously replaced front sight blade (commonly changed by present day shooters, and easily reversible) I do not see any configuration problems whatsoever, other than to say that I cannot explain the SRS entry - which, to be honest - does not automatically mean that something is "wrong".

[joemel12]

Thank you sir and thanks to all who contributed.Looks like I'll be proceeding.

[m1903rifle]

Thanks 1903. Question,the R is for rifle and x is for?

The X must stand for the 24" carbine( rifle?), the model 1886.

[Tom Trevor]

experimental carbine

[Sunray]

"...SRS reports this as rifle..." 99.99% sure Bubba got at that vs any Ordnance shop. Stuff got sporterised long before either W.W.
A net search for '98 CO C 3RD NC COL'D INF' returns a North Carolina U.S. Civil War Mounted Infanrty Regiment. Unless that Regm't became a National Guard unit, no way it had anything to do with a Trap Door. Might be some more info researching in that direction though.

[Dick Hosmer]

There are at least two possibilities:

(1) It is completely legit, with a number transposition in the SRS data - which is great but NOT totally infallible, as Frank Mallory was always quick to state. The extremely close bracketing by two 'good' numbers is at least suggestive of a possible error. I am ignorant as to whether 'colored' regiments were still referred to as such in the 1898 period.

(2) It is a reassembly (at a time and by parties unknown) using ALL of the proper and rare parts, of matching patina, which is NOT to be confused with "sporterizing" by Bubba, which implies cutting off the barrel, reshaping the wood, etc. That model cannot be faked from the scrap bin - you NEED the proper parts with which to work.