1903A1 National Match rifle

[Calfed]

A couple of months ago I saw a 1903 rifle on auction, billed as a National Match model. It looked right and I requested a serial number check on it on another forum. My source came back with a hit from the SRS...1903A1NM DCM sale, 9/12/1938. Based on the hit, I went ahead and put a bid in on it. I hadn't heard anything back from the auction house, so I assumed I hadn't won.

Friday they called and advised that I had won the NM rifle and another rifle that I had also put a bid in on. There were a limited number of pics and description.

http://i.imgur.com/bMx3Xfv.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/G7GFfVf.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/zrwWfKj.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/idVmDoX.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/EHN4JRJ.jpg?1

Description advised as follows...

A .30-06 ‘MODEL 1903 A1 NATIONAL MATCH’ BOLT-MAGAZINE SERVICE RIFLE, serial no. 1402726, 24in. barrel with blade fore-sight and tangent rear sights to 2850 yards, the muzzle with ‘S.A’ over the ordnance bomb and '1-38’, receiver marked ‘U.S. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY MODEL 1903. 1402726’, polished bolt marked ‘N.S.’ and etched with the serial number, pistolgrip stock with sling swivels and chequered steel buttplate with trap

I know that better pics and description would be required to determine what the going rate would be for this rifle and whether I got a good deal on it or not, but does anyone have any thoughts on what a NM rifle from this era is worth?

What should I look for when it arrives to determine how original it is?

[Cosine26]

It looks to me as if the stock has been modified in the top of pistol grip area. I will post a known NM Type C stock picture. The dark stock is the darker. The light stock is a reworked Keystone stock.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Cosine1/M1903/M1903RTfs.jpg
Hope this helps.
FWIW

[RCS]

Most of the later NM 1903 stocks have both the drawing number and rifle serial number stamped by the rear sling swivel, I have 1497163 and D-1836 stamped
on a stock

[Calfed]

It looks to me as if the stock has been modified in the top of pistol grip area. I will post a known NM Type C stock picture. The dark stock is the darker. The light stock is a reworked Keystone stock.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/Cosine1/M1903/M1903RTfs.jpg
Hope this helps.
FWIW




Most of the later NM 1903 stocks have both the drawing number and rifle serial number stamped by the rear sling swivel, I have 1497163 and D-1836 stamped
on a stock

Thanks, guys!

SRS can provide a letter attesting to its pedigree as a NM rifle and also a copy of the original sales ticket.

Assuming that it still has all the NM attributes, and is in good condition, could you hazaed a guess as to its value?

[Cosine26]

There was an undocumented NM M1903 in the for sale section for $1500. It is on gun broker according to the latest post. I do not know what documented rifles are selling for.
FWIW

[Rick the Librarian]

A lot more than $1500!! :)

[Cosine26]

I agree. The rifle in the for sale section was undocumented and the price was $1500. As I indicated, the seller has moved it to Gunbroker according to his latest post. There were some numbers close but unlisted. I believe that NM M1903 are going for about $3000 but have not seen any advertised recently
FWIW

[Calfed]

Thanks, guys.

John Beard believes that the stock is not original, so I'm not sure where that leaves the value of this rifle.

[louis]

Really nice rifle. You did well on both rifles.

[Calfed]

Thanks, louis

[Cosine26]

Calfed
I respect John Beard's opinion (He is far more knowledgeable in the area of M1903's than I) but after careful study of the pictures that you have posted, I believe that the stock on this rifle is a type C which has been modified in the pistol grip area. It may very well not be original to the rifle as John pointed out. After a study of the pictures it appears to me that the top of the pistol grip had been made deeper in the comb area. The remainder of the stock looks to be pure M1903 including the stock bolts and the fore end hardware. If you look at the stock just forward of the lower sling swivel you many be able to see the stock number or a rifle number (indication a NM rifle).One other consideration (though very remote) is that this was an experimental stock by some employee of the SA. I have no idea what the value of the rifle would be. Modifications do not seem to add to the value of the rifle unless it can be documented to some special project
FWIW

[Calfed]

I've looked that area over carefully and it does seem different. I just do not know enough to opine.

I've looked for pictures of other NM stocks and have come up with a few...including this one, which looks similar to my untrained eye...

http://i.imgur.com/3HZF5jM.jpg

Mine

http://i.imgur.com/G7GFfVf.jpg?1

I just do not know. I'll know more when the rifle actually arrives.

[Calfed]

You could be right, Cosine 26. Here is another picture of the same NM rifle from LSB
http://i.imgur.com/bxvEsBa.jpg?1


Here is mine
http://i.imgur.com/bMx3Xfv.jpg?1

The chief difference, again to my untrained eye, is around the pistol grip and handguard. I guess if it comes and there are no NM markings on the stock, I'll know for sure.

[Cosine26]

I am wrong again.

[Roadkingtrax]

NM rifles were often modified once purchased. No doubt this could have as well.

[Rick the Librarian]

It looks modified to me. Here's a picture of the NM stock on my 1370112 rifle.

It will interesting to see if it still has any markings, especially underneath near the butt swivel.36952

[Calfed]

It will interesting to see if it still has any markings, especially underneath near the butt swivel.

I think that will tell the tale.

[Roadkingtrax]

Since the front sight blade was changed or modified, anything else could be too.

[twh]

36954Here's a picture of that area on mine which is serial numbered about 1500 below yours. Its the comb of the stock that looks off to me.

[Randy A]

First impression I got was the sharp angle of the grip cap and the abrupt front on the comb. Almost like the whole butt is situated higher than a standard C stock. I think JB is right, but it's still a darn nice looking rifle.

[Calfed]

Thanks, guys.

I'll just have to wait for it to arrive to give it a close inspection. California has a 10-day "cooling off" period after it arrives at my FFL, but I can look it over and take pictures when it arrives.

[PhillipM]

I wouldn't sweat it, somebody made it fit them better.

I bought a LEAD 513T stock off this forum modified in the comb and love the way it fits.

Enjoy your nice rifle!

[Calfed]

Thanks, Phillip.

[Calfed]

The 03A4 and 1903Nm arrived at my FFL and I got a chance to give them the once over. Unfortunately, it will be a few weeks before I can bring them home due to Cali's infamous 10-day "cooling-off" period.

The stock seems to be a Springfield "C" stock, with possibly some work done in the comb area. There is a number on the buttstock, but not the serial number. There are "S's" stamped in the magazine cutoff cutout.

http://i.imgur.com/Y0O7sWe.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/bZvsSqf.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/0mOFTEr.jpg?2
http://i.imgur.com/fzb3hMT.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/O6Yvipt.jpg?1

Buttplate appears correct

http://i.imgur.com/Hzq0DwE.jpg?2

Barrel is excellent, measures a "0" on the CMP muzzle gauge, and has the star gauge mark.

http://i.imgur.com/scavvfX.jpg?1

The bolt is lightly electro penciled with the serial number.

[Randy A]

Nice, much better pics than the sellers, I'd say she's good to go.

[Cosine26]

The number on the stock confirms what I thought it was in my original post- a stock that had been modified in the pistol grip area. After studying the new pictures (which I might add are very good) I could offer many conjectures, but One good fact by an expert would be better than a hundred conjectures from me. As you indicated in your original post, someone has identified it as a DCM sale as an NM M1903 sold on 9/8/1938. It is a beautiful rifle. I do not have any idea what the altered stock will do to the value. I think that it would be well worth while to join SRS and get a letter. I did for my NM M1903.
FWIW

[Calfed]

Nice, much better pics than the sellers, I'd say she's good to go.

Thanks, Randy. I took th epictures on the floor of my FFL's place of business. I'll take better pictures when I get it home.



The number on the stock confirms what I thought it was in my original post- a stock that had been modified in the pistol grip area. After studying the new pictures (which I might add are very good) I could offer many conjectures, but One good fact by an expert would be better than a hundred conjectures from me. As you indicated in your original post, someone has identified it as a DCM sale as an NM M1903 sold on 9/8/1938. It is a beautiful rifle. I do not have any idea what the altered stock will do to the value. I think that it would be well worth while to join SRS and get a letter. I did for my NM M1903.
FWIW

Thanks, Cosine26! I subscribed to the US Martial Arms Quarterly and SRS this afternoon. I'll be ordering a letter on this and apparently the SRS has a copy of the original sales ticket, which I will also get.

[Rick the Librarian]

Can I ask what you paid for it?

[Cosine26]

Hi RTL
On another forum he indicated that he paid $2400.
FWIW

[Roadkingtrax]

Next time you look at it, get a good picture of the barrel date/ flaming bomb. I'd be curious what it might show.

[Calfed]

Can I ask what you paid for it?


Hi RTL
On another forum he indicated that he paid $2400.
FWIW


This is correct. Considering that I can get an SRS letter confirming its pedigree and a copy of the original sales ticket, it seems like this might have been a decent deal.

[Calfed]

Next time you look at it, get a good picture of the barrel date/ flaming bomb. I'd be curious what it might show.

Will do, RKT. The barrel is dated "1-38", but i will post a pic of it after I pick it up.

[Calfed]

I got some documentation from the SRS on my rifle. In case anyone ever wondered what the SRS letter and Ordnance sales ticket look like.

http://i.imgur.com/Gt14NFF.png?3

http://i.imgur.com/b2VHcOK.png?2

[Cosine26]

I would like to know who in Clovis bought that rifle. I used to shoot with Tom Gatewood, P.J. Wright, Jack and Helen Moore, George Tubb, Roger Hedgecock, Larry Wilson, etcs. and others in that area. Helen was Helen Orme Johnson whose father was the only one who shot in both the King's Hundred and the Presidents Hundred. Helen still holds the record for 10 shots at a 1000 yards on the old "C" target. The match has been discontinued for the course is now fired on the LR target.
FWIW

[Calfed]

PM sent

[Cosine26]

Hi Calfed
I received your private message. I do not personally remember him, but he fired as an Expert in the New Mexico State Championship sponsored by my gun club (White Sands Rifle and Pistol Club) fired on Dona Ana Range #43 on 23 & 24 June 1962 according to my official match bulletin. I do not know how to send a private message or I could send you his address in Clovis NM and his scores. My match bulletin's from the era indicates that He fired quite regularly in the NM State Championship's and even fired a couple after we opened the State Range at Capitan in 1964 though I do not see his name much after about 1965.

[Calfed]

I'll pm my email to you.

I do not want to seem like a stalker, but I would like to get any information that I can about the original purchaser.

[Calfed]

The bore is amazing...a "0" on the CMP gauge.

http://i.imgur.com/hZqi8kX.jpg?1