Where would one find ammo?

[dlc_aec]

my new krag - I WANNA SHOOT IT!!!!

anyone know where i might find some ammo? every place ive looked is out of stock.

thanks,
douglas

[CJCulpeper]

I'll give you the not so good news first. You do what the rest of us do. Hit every little hole in the wall gun shop within a hundred mile radius of your house. Make friends with the owners, get their email addresses. You are not going to find a bag of brass unless it is in a hole in the wall. So buy a box of loaded ammo, if you can find it, and use it for your brass. If you can not wait then find .303 British brass and modify it to .30-40 Krag. If you can not find .303 British brass then you spend the money for loaded .303 British and use it as your brass source.

All the while keeping a daily eye on the major components sites for the second coming... ...of the Krag brass. Personally, I think the Christ will be showing up before Krag brass. When it does return know how many pieces will hold you over for a few years. Let's say you can get ten reloads from one case but you shoot five boxes a year. A hundred pieces will take you down the road four or five years. Or not.

Just one guy's opinion and suggestion.

The good news. It could be here tomorrow. Or maybe the day after.

[PhillipM]

A friend bought one about three years ago and couldn't even find brass to make cast reloads.

There was loaded ammo for sale on the classified board here a week ago.

[psteinmayer]

The easy answer is buy Remington ammo, shoot it, and then you have some brass. It IS out there to be found... it's just scarce these days. Remington loaded ammo is good accurate stuff and safe to shoot in Krags. Winchester used to produce ammo too, but it's about as common now as a diamond in a dirt pile! If you are perusing gun shows, and run across a box of the Winchester (modern stuff... not Super-X, Super-Speed, or any of the odd derivatives), my advice is BUY IT!!! The Winchester brass is about as good as it comes!!!

Using .303 brass is a great alternative... but the case length will be about .1 shorter than a 30-40 case.

It baffles me that with all of the Krags out there, and with all of the active Krag shooters, no one is making brass. Remington no longer sells cases, and only produces loaded ammo on a limited "seasonal" basis anymore. I understand that there is a limited market for factory loaded ammo now-a-days... but I don't understand why no one sees the market for brass! Shoot, PPU makes 7.7x58 mm (7.7 JAP) brass and Hornady makes loaded ammo with it... and there's a heck of a lot more Krags being used out there than Type 99s!

[Sunray]

"...buy Remington ammo..." Only loaded "seasonally". Winchester, I believe, discontinued it altogether. Midway discontinued carrying brass
"...Using .303 brass is a great alternative..." Pretty much the only alternative. There is no .30-40 Krag readily available otherwise. Not even from OWS. There is a bag of 50 once fired on Gunbroker. Current bid is $57. Ends 28 Aug. Plus $10 shipping. Another 50 mix of Remington and Winchester bidding at $74.99. No bids at all. Ends 23 Aug. And some daft guy in CA who thinks 5 cases is worth $46.
"...with all of the Krags out there..." Actually few and far between.

[Griff Murphey]

When I bought my sewer pipe Krag, which actually shoots pretty well, in 1966 at Deep River Armory in Houston, I bought 200 rounds of UMC .30 Army Full Patch. Assume it was made late teens or early 20's. I shot away about half of it and have been reloading those cases for the last 40 years but I kind of retired them as I started getting a few neck cracks. The original brass was pretty thin compared to new modern stuff and may have had some damage due to mercuric priming, corrosive priming I would assume as well. Anyway hearing this I certainly won't throw it out, I might anneal the necks of the survivors. If you (like me) neck size only, I am not sure you could wear out modern brass.

[Rick the Librarian]

I admit I get my eyes open in every hole in the wall, every dealer's junk box at gun shows and watched the WTS ads. Over the last ten years you'd be surprised what I "hunted and gathered"! :)

37091

[psteinmayer]

I anneal and neck size only. Some of my R-P brass is well into twenty or more reloads. I get the occasional neck crack (had two during the Roosevelt Match), and those go into the scrap bin. You will eventually wear the modern brass out... but with proper care, annealing, and neck sizing... you can extend that life ten-fold!

[Fred]

30-40 Krag can be found around here in every feed and tractor supply store. You can buy boots, lariats, bridles, harnesses, saddles, blankets, pet food, candy, knives, batteries, bird houses, tractor supplies and other hardware, fencing, feeders, water tanks, Baby chicks, baby ducks, etc. etc. and all kinds of ammo including lots of boxes of 30-40 Krag.

[psteinmayer]

Ok... So let's all flock to Fred's. Maybe we could all meet at Fred's house and then descend an-masse to the store. Then, afterward, we'll have a BBQ at Fred's to celebrate!

Heehee

Seriously though... I bet there are a lot of mom & pop type stores and supply stores, etc. that would have it. We just need to root these places out! There's a small gun shop out here near Tecumseh, MI which I bet has some. Also, last time I was at Cabela's in Dundee, they had 10 or so boxes too!

[CJCulpeper]

I know where there are three boxes of R-P Krag ammo. I know there are three because there used to be five boxes

Do I hear a bid for 100 dollars for release of the information to the secret location?

[CJCulpeper]

my new krag - I WANNA SHOOT IT!!!!

anyone know where i might find some ammo? every place ive looked is out of stock.

thanks,
douglas

So where are you located?

[jon_norstog]

dlc, do you have dies? I bet you could get a box or two from someone on this list.

jn

[dlc_aec]

sorry for the absence.

im in NW Oklahoma. no, i dont have dies... yet. i do plan on reloading, i just dont have anything (empty or loaded brass) to start with.

thanks,
douglas

[dave]

Gun shows, but be prepared to pay!

[dave]

Brass "flows" forward when fired. Annealing keeps it from getting work hardened from resizing but they still will get thinner, that's why they must be checked for length on occasion. Light loads of course help slow this to a minimum.

[Dick Hosmer]

Since this is the case, wouldn't the slight (0.1") shortage issue with .303 British brass eventually become almost moot?

[Parashooter]

Unfortunately, this "flow" on firing isn't really what happens. When fired (with good headspace and normal pressure), the case mostly expands outward to fill the chamber. This makes the diameter greater and actually decreases length. (Those in doubt need only measure cases before and after firing.) When a case is full-length sized, it gets pushed from the back end and squeezed around body and neck. Since metal displaced inward has to go somewhere and the only place not constrained by die and shellholder is forward, length then increases. If FL sizing weren't rather hard on our precious brass, this might be helpful for adding length - but it is, so we often size just the necks to enhance longevity.

When we neck size only, there's very little displacement of metal during sizing and length increase is minimal - not enough to add .1" during the normal life of a .303 or .30/40 case.

[PhillipM]

Unfortunately, this "flow" on firing isn't really what happens. When fired (with good headspace and normal pressure), the case mostly expands outward to fill the chamber. This makes the diameter greater and actually decreases length. (Those in doubt need only measure cases before and after firing.) When a case is full-length sized, it gets pushed from the back end and squeezed around body and neck. Since metal displaced inward has to go somewhere and the only place not constrained by die and shellholder is forward, length then increases. If FL sizing weren't rather hard on our precious brass, this might be helpful for adding length - but it is, so we often size just the necks to enhance longevity.

When we neck size only, there's very little displacement of metal during sizing and length increase is minimal - not enough to add .1" during the normal life of a .303 or .30/40 case.

I can't understand why the RCBS X-Die isn't the most popular on the planet. Trim once and forget it.

[psteinmayer]

I use LEE Pacesetter dies, neck size only (die backed out one full turn), and I rarely have to trim! I gotta agree with Para.

[jon_norstog]

dlc, get yourself set up for reloading, then send me a PM. I'm 71 years old and have more brass than I'll ever need unless I move somewhere that has a decent gun range - one W/O a 10 year wait list or a political loyalty test

jn

[dlc_aec]

jon,

i tried to pm you, but your box is full.

i have all the equipment and supplies for reloading. i reload for all my rifles/shotguns now. im just short a set of dies, and those ill get.

can you email me? dlc_aec at yahoo.com

thanks,
douglas

[CJCulpeper]

dlc

Did you manage to contact the location with the boxes of Krag ammo?

[PhillipM]

I'm messaged Hornady on Facebook:

We don't make any 30-40 Krag ammo and it appears hardly anyone else does either. Generally, it's simply because manufactures can't sell enough of it to justify taking the time to produce it. It's simply not popular enough. You may want to ask Remington as it appears they make some on a seasonal basis.

[psteinmayer]

Hmmmmm And yet Hornady (using PPU brass) makes 7.7x58mm Jap, sold through Graf and Sons. It seems to me that there would be a heck of a lot greater demand for 30-40 than there would be for 7.7x58.

[nf1e]

After reading this thread I decided to load up some 30-40 for the Fall season. I found that I was down to my last box of 100 R-P from Midway years ago. Upon opening the box of brass I found much of it has small corrosion spots. Never seen that before. So that last 100 is in the wet tumbler getting cleaned up. Guess I will have to put some unobtainium 30-40 on my hunt for list.

[Art]

30-40 Krag is one of those obsolete cartridges that the ammo makers make runs of every few years. I posted on this forum a while back about .30-40 in stock at Academy here locally. It's all gone now. Winchester even whips out some .41 Long Colt every few decades. Just watch for it.

psteinmeyer: I'll bet you that there are a lot more people in this country with functional 7.7mm Japanese rifles than with functional Krags. Three and a half million Jap. Type 99 rifles were made compared to only about a half million U.S. .30-40 Krag Jorgensen type rifles, and those Type 99s are a lot more recent manufacture.

[psteinmayer]

You might be right... I just see more Krags at ranges, in CMP Matches, and at gun shows than I do Type 99s. I personally have two of each 😀.

I do think it prudent though that more people contact Remington and Winchester occasionally about our beloved Krags. Maybe they'll get the hint that there is still a big demand for 30-40 ammo and brass.

[gnoahhh]

Don't be bashful about old pre-war brass if you stumble onto it. Just anneal the necks before loading it and ride off into the sunset with it. I have around 300 pieces of that old stuff, loaded 100 a couple years ago and am still going strong with that first batch. Also, I put out "want to buy" ads in a few forums last year and the stuff poured in. It's out there if you try hard enough.

I'm even running a handful of old 1920's vintage brass that's still good.

Hole in the wall gunshops still turn up the stuff, too. I popped into one recently, didn't see any on the shelf. When asked, the owner allowed as how he might have some "in the back". What he had was two old bags of 50ea. W-W from long ago. He sold them to me for the old price still on the bags.

My point is, put in the hours searching for it and you will be rewarded. I bet I spent 100 hours on the prowl, physically and electronically, last year and now I have (hopefully) enough for my remaining days.

A couple years ago I was in a "semi-modern" hardware store and just happened to notice some old dusty boxes of ammo hidden behind some junk on the bottom shelf. .30-40's, .250-3000's, and .30-30's from probably the 70's. I gathered them all up, plunked them on the counter and asked the pimply-faced kid if the prices on the boxes were legit. He called his boss at home who told him to sell them to me for that price. If it had a sticker, it was good to go! I ran with them to my car, literally. The highest price was $7.95. 14 boxes total, five of which were .30-40's.

[psteinmayer]

Amen to that Gnoahhh... It IS out there to be found!

I have some brass probably from the 1930 and 1940s... some marked .30 USA, others marked .30 Army. I may rotate these back into the mix. I currently have 20 rounds designated as dummys (all marked .30 USA) that I will reclaim. I'll make up new dummy rounds using brass with neck cracks since I ain't going to shoot those anymore!

[gnoahhh]

Yep. Just anneal the necks and go with neck sizing for as long as you can get away with it.

[Darreld Walton]

Geeze, I'm glad that I bought the heck out of it back in 1999 when I got my first carbine!! People then looked at me like I was insane pushing 300 rounds of new WW brass in those spiffy white 20 rd boxes across the counter. Hadn't heard about making it out of 303. I DO occasionally run across ammunition once in awhile, but haven't bought any because of what I already have on the shelf.

[psteinmayer]

Wish I had some of the 300... I consider the WW brass to be the best out there! Oh how I wish that Winchester would start producing it again... :icon_e_sad:

[19coupe55]

I have tried to contact Starline a couple of times an asked why they don't make 30-40 brass! Never had an answer from them. Anybody have an educated guess why they don't produce some?

[JimF]

I have tried to contact Starline a couple of times an asked why they don't make 30-40 brass! Never had an answer from them. Anybody have an educated guess why they don't produce some?

My "educated guess" is . . . .

There are only a relative FEW of us old. grey-beards that are interested in the old "wood-and-steel" rifles!

Now, if some company was to make a "black, plastic, laser-sighted, AR-platform" rifle, chambered in 30-40 Krag . . . . .

[psteinmayer]

FWIW, I wrote Prvi Partizan last week asking them to consider making Krag brass. No reply as of yet!

[5MadFarmers]

My "educated guess" is . . . .

There are only a relative FEW of us old. grey-beards that are interested in the old "wood-and-steel" rifles!

Correct. Which is why ammunition isn't as hard to acquire as people imply.

Local auctioneers often have "sportsman" auctions. That is where the old ammunition is to be found. With fewer and fewer people interested in the Krags you can normally take full boxes from those auctions for not much money. Over the last decade I've taken enough that way to fill ammunition can after can. If you're concerned that it was reloaded knock it down and reload it.

If you live in an area which doesn't have those auctions then troll the online sites which cater to them: Auctionzip and Proxibid.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/krag_ammo.png

Auctions without an online buyer's option are better as it's local competition only. Yesterday I was at an auction where the first 100 lots were old ammunition. Those weren't available online as they didn't want the pain of selling it to people not at the auction. After those lots were gone it was guns which were available online. I had two auctions to choose from with the other having an incredibly amount of ammunition but it was a further drive.

It's out there. Auctions.

The last "new" box of Krag cartridges I saw was in 2013 in a Gander Mountain in Utah. I bought exactly one box as I already have more than I'll shoot.

[CJCulpeper]

I know of four boxes of Remington Krag ammo at hole in the wall gun shops. I asked the latest one last week if he had any Krag ammo and he opened a glass front cabinet door and pulled out a box. I could see that he had three boxes. I didn't want to buy all three nor did he suggest it.


Here is my intel report for you new guys without ammo. One shop is near New Philadephia, Ohio and had two boxes for sale as of a month ago and the one mentioned above is near Westminster Mayland. If you are near those places shoot me a pm and I'll tell you the names and contact info.

Getting off both of the Inter-State and Internet super highways has sevred me well. Plus I get to see some of America while doing it.

[psteinmayer]

For what it's worth... I wrote Prvi Partizan last week asking them to consider making 30-40 brass. I got this reply last night:

Dear Mr.,

Thank you for contacting our company, and also for your suggestions.

We would like to inform you that we will not manufacture 30/40 Krag, in the future, but we will consider your opinion in our development plan.

Best regards
PPU Team
Prvi Partizan A.D.

Has anyone contacted Starline yet? I understand they are now making bottleneck cases (308 Win/7.62x51mm)

[Dick Hosmer]

There seems to be a little language/semantics/translation issue there, unless they were just being polite and a trifle condescending. Anyway, they clearly aren't going to do it NOW. Still cannot see why they won't, if they make .303B. Wonder if they ever thought about making a generic, partly formed case that could be sized and trimmed by the user, ala some of the BELL basic cases?

[PhillipM]

School me on a Bell basic case, please.

[Dick Hosmer]

BELL = Brass Extrusion Laboratories Limited, I believe. They may be out of business.

They made (amongst more mundane items) some "basic" extra-long cases which could be necked and trimmed for, as an example, the numerous Sharps and oddball Winchester, Marlin, etc. calibers. I was thinking of a too-long .303B case, with perhaps a generic shoulder, which, given the proper dies and a trimmer, or by fire-forming, could possible serve both .30-40 and .303 British (and perhaps some others) reloaders. I am NOT looking at comparison data as I type this. Perhaps it would not be feasible.

[madsenshooter]

Well, I've been saving this tidbit until I got some myself, but now that we're talking basic cases and such, PRVI makes an extended .303 blank that would blow out to beyond Krag length. I got some people pulling their chain about getting some pulled from production, before they're primed, loaded and final formed. Unlike US made blanks, PRVI assured me they use the same brass for the blanks that they use for loaded ammo. The blanks are out there now, I'm not pointing you to the best price! As discussed on the KCA forum, you can close the bolt of a Krag on .303 brass with a bit of extra effort. This blank is all the more reason PRVI would have no problem making 30-40. If you buy them all up before I get a chance to get some, I'm not going to be pleased with y'all!

[psteinmayer]

I wrote Starline this morning:

Good Morning,

I am a long time shooter and reloader. I load for many different cartridges, and I use Starline for many of them, but there is one that is now almost impossible to find anymore - the venerable 30-40 Krag (formerly known as .30 Army or .30 USA). This round has existed for more than 120 years, and is still very much in demand. There are hundreds of people shooting this cartridge on a regular basis, including hunters, match shooters, and recreational shooters. I, along with dozens more compete with our original Krag rifles in registered Vintage Rifle Matches throughout the year. Presently, only Remington makes live ammo, and only on a very limited seasonal basis… and no one is making brass for sale. However, there is an enormous (and rapidly growing) demand for the cases.

Is there a possibility that Starline start producing 30-40 Krag brass for bulk sale? If so, this could be quite profitable as there are hundreds of shooters looking for it (I’d be good for several hundred rounds worth myself).

Thank you so very much for your time on this matter.

Very respectfully and with warm regards,
Paul Steinmayer

Let's see if they respond...

[psteinmayer]

Encouraging news!

I wrote to Colorado Custom Cartridges. LLC a couple days ago and received a nice letter from them.

My letter:
Hello, I am a long time shooter and I dabble in a large array of different guns, mostly antique military rifles. I shoot in several classes of military rifle matches, culminating in the National Rifle Matches at Camp Perry every year. Of all the weapons I shoot, my favorite by far… and the hardest to obtain viable ammo/components for… is the venerable US Krag Jorgensen rifle. The 30-40 Krag round (formerly known as .30 Army or .30 USA) has existed for more than 120 years, and is still very much in demand. There are hundreds of people shooting this cartridge on a regular basis, including hunters, match shooters, and recreational shooters. Presently, only Remington makes live ammo, and only on a very limited seasonal basis… and no one is making brass for sale. However, there is an enormous (and rapidly growing) demand for live ammo and brass cases. The case dimensions for 30-40 Krag are almost identical to that of the .303 British round, with the same rim and case size, and with a slightly longer neck and a shoulder that sits slightly further back.

Is there a possibility that the Colorado Custom Cartridge Company add 30-40 Krag to your already impressive list of calibers? I can state without hesitation that you would be rewarded with a very large demand for this product. If you didn’t want to produce live ammo, then simply producing the brass would be very profitable! Thank you so very much for your time on this matter. Very respectfully and with warm regards

Here's the response I received yesterday:
Hi Paul,

Been many years since I shot at Perry. Good memories for sure. Your correct the brass for the Krag has all but dried up. There seems to be always a couple guys on gun broker that think
the brass is gold and are skinning people. WE do not play that game. I can make krag brass from either .405 Win. It's dimensionally super close. Another caliber is the .303 British. It's is
functional and depending on the chamber, may be useable a few time (reloaded) after fire forming. The .405 makes a great case BUT!! has several more steps to make it "correct". This means
neck turning and correct sizing. Both calibers of brass are readily available.

We do load for several match shooters using a variety of calibers. Depending on the degree of accuracy you are in search of we can go either way as brass. Remington will "some day"
run this again and there is rumors that an importer is making noise of making this caliber also. Are you shooting .308 or .309 diameter bullets? Another point of interest is that the .303 British
reformed case is short! 2.215 in comparison to the Krags 2.3142 Having not shot this short case myself, reports are that they worked fine. I would choose to test some before ordering a quantity
of ammo.

Let me know your thoughts. We are always up for a good challenge and "match ammunition" in this caliber is way over due.

Regards

Looks like there is hope!

[Stephan]

PCI .30-40 and Remington .30-40 are all I've seen for new production .30 US Krag. I looked online and seems like all the .30-40 ammo and new brass are out of the system now.

PCI might be the company to call.

[Ned Butts]

PCI?
Never mind just googled it!!

[Bob Collins]

I purchase a wooden case of WWI dated ammunition in 2014 at the SOS. Ammunition is is sealed bandoleers with the pull strings present. Condition looks as though it was made yesterday. No corrosion no discoloration. One side of the long wooden crate is missing but still has the tin container complete. I will be glad to bring it to the 2016 SOS.

[Ned Butts]

Sportsman's Guide now lists Remington 180 gr. for $33.49/31.82

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry, but what is "SOS"?

[CPC]

Dick,
I believe he is referring to the Show of Shows in Louisville, a large military show held each spring. It used to be held the same week as a large gun show but that changed. That said, I am a little confused because he indicates he will bring it to the 2016 SOS and that has long passed, the next show will be in Feb 2017. I hope that helps... Regards, CC

[Bob Collins]

2016 was meant to be 2017 Ohio Valley Military Society Show of Shows in Louisville, Kentucky.

[madsenshooter]

I got some of the PRVI blanks I pictured earlier in this thread. The neck and shoulder are not annealed like their brass for loading. I can't just simply size them down with the bolt as I do the reloading brass. They have to be run into a 30-40 die with the expander ball removed. I adjusted my die slowly downward till the bolt would just close on my parked Krag, which I know has the tightest chamber of all my rifles. They'll even feed through my parked Krag, if I only load one or two. Blowing out a few scheduled for tmrw.

[PhillipM]

You size brass in your rifle? Do you lube them?

[madsenshooter]

Yes, a little dab of Imperial sizing die wax on the shoulder. That's all it took for the annealed reloading brass. The body taper of the .303 is sharper than the 30-40's until blown out, the shoulder a bit smaller in diameter, so all that touches the chamber is the shoulder itself. It only takes a little extra pressure on the bolt handle, by hand, and it can be done without lube too. Just not the unannealed blank cases. Of course that means .303 ammo could be chambered and fired in a Krag. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's a handy thing to know in case you had no other ammo in a survival situation.

I cut the crimped end off one blank case just see what is in them. 10.9gr of some flake powder. It may not all be the same, might be some stuff in there meant to increase muzzle flash too. I've no use for it, know blank powder to be super fast burning, so I'll probably fire them all before turning them into Krag cases.

[BudT]

I wonder if the op found any brass or ammo for their Krag? I checked at one local gun store this morning and they had at least 4 boxes of Winchester brand on the shelf.

[madsenshooter]

I fired 14 of the Krag sized .303 blanks yesterday. On some, the crimp split a bit and in one case the split ran down the neck far enough that I won't be able to get a full length Krag case out of it. Looks like I'll be using a tubing cutter and breaking down the remaining blanks before processing the cases. I shot the blanks along towards evening, pretty impressive report and muzzle flash from the 24" barreled cutdown.

[PhillipM]

How will you remove the lip after cutting? Taper punch? Lyman M die?

[Dick Hosmer]

Went to a small local show this AM - picked up a very clean NOS Remington red/green box - full - for $25.00. You just have to keep your eyes open.

[madsenshooter]

How will you remove the lip after cutting? Taper punch? Lyman M die?

Lee tapered expander ball. Somehow, I got lucky and the first one I used the tubing cutter on came out the right Krag trim to length even though I was just eyeballing it. Little bit of a burr inside and out, not much, less than I get with my Lee Trimmer.

[psteinmayer]

Just to let everyone know... Graf & Sons has Krag Brass in stock: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/764?. The price is $42.99 for a bag of 50, and the headstamp says GRAF on them. I ordered some.

[madsenshooter]

See guys, they listen! Thanks Marge & crew! Don't forget bullets while you're there folks!

[Bob Collins]

I will have an original case of WWI Krag military ammunition in 60 round bandoliers at the Ohio Valley Militaria Show of Shows (SOS) at the Louisville, Ky. Expo Center Feb. 24-25. The ammunition is as nice as the day it was made. I have examined a partial bandolier that came with the case (Remington May 1907) no corrosion, discoloration or anything that would make me worry about shooting it. Looks like the day it was packed. Just FYI (for your information). It will be sold as collector ammunition in the unopened bandoleers. I have seen ammunition from the era that had corroded cases, split cases and I would not shoot one round if you put a pistol to my head and cocked it but this is not that ammunition. I will be selling the ammunition by the bandoleer. I can tell you now I paid a collector price. It was not given to me. If you want ammo for your Krag come see me,