Curious

[John Sukey]

How many of you have the bayonet to go with your rifles? Have one for all of mine. also how many have slings?

On the same subject, Saddle scabbards? cartridge belts?, Uniforms,? Helmets?

[JB White]

I currently have more bayonets than rifles and a bit of overage on slings.
The other stuff, I had some for a while but let most of it go, deciding to narrow my focus. Just a handful of helmets now (if you can get them in one hand!) a few interesting odds and ends, but my son still has a complete NSW Lancers uniform.

[5MadFarmers]

How many of you have the bayonet to go with your rifles? Have one for all of mine. also how many have slings?

On the same subject, Saddle scabbards? cartridge belts?, Uniforms,? Helmets?

Action covers.

=====

I don't really collect "Brit" stuff but do collect it if it's made in the US. Then, just for grins, complete it. So a Savage made rifle and bayonet. Thus a sling and action cover. That's it for that one.

We made both wool and jungle uniforms for them so I have those as well. No leather motorcycle coat and that's kind of a bummer. So if I was to put together a WW2 Tommy I'd be missing the boots and helmet but I guess I could use a WW1 helmet made in England.

Do have a pre-1905 Mills cartridge belt/pocket affair made for Commonwealth forces before they adopted it in 1908. So "pre-1905 pattern 1908 gear."

[Nate]

Having combining slings, bayonets, butt trap kits and everything else to my collectibles, I quit when I discovered that the guys who bought my arms, sold all of it off of it separately. Never again.

[5MadFarmers]

When you dump a bunch of oranges into a bin and squeeze them, you get much less juice than squeezing them individually. People are aware of that when selling.

At one point I wondered what about the stuff I have when I've moved along. Three sons but, the more I thought about that, the more I realized they're not me. They simply don't do the gun/military stuff. So it'd be better in the hands of somebody who was more along my lines. Thus I hope they sell it for maximum profit and blow the proceeds on hookers and blow. Not anything useful as that'd not really be something that'd amuse me. Blow it. Poof. A couple of weeks in Vegas they'll never be able to remember through the haze of the binge. That would amuse me.

So until that time I'll appreciate it. If, instead of selling and and plowing the proceeds into hookers and blow, they bury it I guess that's their choice and not something I should worry about as the point for me is to derive the enjoyment of collecting and poking at it now.

[Merc]

I've been successful in finding correct bayonets and scabbards for all of my military rifles. The 1944 No. 4 Mk 1* Savage has a correct Savage-made spike bayonet with a scabbard/frog. I also have two blade type bayonets and scabbards for it, one from the late 1940s and the other from the 1950s. I also found two correct slings. The rifle appears all original except the front sling swivel that was missing when I bought it and I found a replacement on eBay. It's still very accurate and fun to shoot.

The No. 4 and my other shooters (M1917 and 03-A3) always attract attention at the range. The No. 4 is the only one of the three that's showing some wear and is probably the only one with a history of active military service.

[PhillipM]

When you dump a bunch of oranges into a bin and squeeze them, you get much less juice than squeezing them individually. People are aware of that when selling.

At one point I wondered what about the stuff I have when I've moved along. Three sons but, the more I thought about that, the more I realized they're not me. They simply don't do the gun/military stuff. So it'd be better in the hands of somebody who was more along my lines. Thus I hope they sell it for maximum profit and blow the proceeds on hookers and blow. Not anything useful as that'd not really be something that'd amuse me. Blow it. Poof. A couple of weeks in Vegas they'll never be able to remember through the haze of the binge. That would amuse me.

So until that time I'll appreciate it. If, instead of selling and and plowing the proceeds into hookers and blow, they bury it I guess that's their choice and not something I should worry about as the point for me is to derive the enjoyment of collecting and poking at it now.

Sometimes the hookers will do a swap out.

37425

[BEAR]

I usually find the bayonet after I have the rifle, however I was given a Japanese bayonet back in 1967 by a friend of my father. He had no children and since I would listen to his war stories from the PTO he decided to give me his captured bayonet. It sat for many years in my military footlocker, sad and forlorn. This past Father's Day my wife gave me an Arisaka Model 99. Now they are a pair and will join my other rifles in display.
Patience, patience, patience ... good things will come.

But in keeping with this sub-forum's theme:
Pattern 1907 aquired before rifle
No.4 Mk II and No.9 Mk I after rifle
M1917 (Pattern 1913) after rifle

[5MadFarmers]

Sometimes the hookers will do a swap out.

Sigh, probably not a professional. Hookers, like Dykes, are probably an illusion/harsh light of reality type thing. Dykes we have plenty of and the reality, from what I can see, is "dyke because it's so gobstoppingly ugly and fat no man would touch it."

Sorry to hijack your thread John but you got me thinking. In addition to the wool/trouser and jungle top/bottom ensemble we made other stuff for the Brits. So I have the "War Aid" underwear, sweater, and blanket. So lack of a shirt isn't necessarily a bad thing as the sweater kind of covers that. So helmet, WW1 would work, and footwear are what's missing. Have the rifle, bayonet, action cover, and sling. Stewing further I have oilers and a thong for Brit rifles.

So a Tommy done up in U.S. stuff.

Then it got weird. I collect Mills stuff. We made stuff for the Brits and they made stuff for us. I typically don't look for that stuff, Brit made for us, except for Mills. So have the suspenders, cartridge belt, first aid pouch, and canteen cover. I guess I should buy the ETO jacket and pants, in spite of that not being my interest, simply to have the two as side-by-side contrast. Tommy done up in U.S. stuff and G.I. done up in Brit. That'd be kind of interesting.

So what gun? We made Savages for them but what would be the reverse? Is there such a thing? Did any U.S. troops in the ETO receive SMLEs for anything?

[Merc]

The infantry rifles that the US troops were issued at various times and various quantities during WW2 were the M1s, M1903s, M1917s and 03-A3s. The task of keeping the supply chain running was made simpler because they all fired the standard .30-06 cartridge. it would have complicated things greatly if .303 caliber ammunition was tossed into the US supply chain mix.

We hunted for minie balls in West Virginia years ago and discovered the supply chain miseries that the CSA was experiencing in 1862. We hunted the Union positions that were being fired upon by the Rebs and found a mixture of various types and calibers of spent ammo (three ring .69 caliber minie balls, two and three ring .58 caliber minie balls, Enfield ringless minie balls and buck and ball). These guys carried a variety of rifles into battle. The dropped Union ammo we found was easily identified as .58 caliber minie balls and occasionally buck and ball.

[JB White]

Did any U.S. troops in the ETO receive SMLEs for anything?

For logistical reasons during the USA's early involvement during WW1. Didn't last long.

[5MadFarmers]

For logistical reasons during the USA's early involvement during WW1. Didn't last long.

Thanks. Second question: oiler and thong. Is there a tool for the WW2 SMLE and, if so, what does it look like?

[JB White]

Thanks. Second question: oiler and thong. Is there a tool for the WW2 SMLE and, if so, what does it look like?

Naturally there were entire tool kits including jigs and gauges for issue to armorers. Tommy Adkins was not to be trusted to adjust his rifle even for sighting.
For maintenance on the individual level, a brass oiler with a spoon in the cap (plastic was intermixed by WW2) and a pullthrough was issued with the rifle. Flanellete patches were cut and distributed. The pullthrough had two loops. The second was for drying and the first was to hook and extract a broken pull. Again, a job for the unit armorer.
Cleaning was done with a special funnel issued at the squad level. Boiling water was poured into the open actions. Allowed to flash dry. Then the individual would insure dry with a patch, followed by an oily patch. Oil with the spoon was applied to designated friction points.

So, if your question was "What tools was Tommy Adkins issued?", the answer is for the most part "none".

HTH?

[Sunray]

"...We made Savages for them..." Savage made No. 4 rifles under contract. Savage did not make SMLE's. An SMLE is a No. 1 Mk whatever only. A No. 4 is not an SMLE.
"...any U.S. troops..." Not likely. The Brits barely had enough kit for themselves. Canada provided most of the kit issued to Brit troopies. We were making it anyway and nobody was dropping exploding things on us.
"...the bayonet..." Need an M-14 bayonet. Wouldn't pay the money they wanted years ago when I bought the Winchester.

[5MadFarmers]

Naturally there were entire tool kits including jigs and gauges for issue to armorers. Tommy Adkins was not to be trusted to adjust his rifle even for sighting.
For maintenance on the individual level, a brass oiler with a spoon in the cap (plastic was intermixed by WW2) and a pullthrough was issued with the rifle. Flanellete patches were cut and distributed. The pullthrough had two loops. The second was for drying and the first was to hook and extract a broken pull. Again, a job for the unit armorer.
Cleaning was done with a special funnel issued at the squad level. Boiling water was poured into the open actions. Allowed to flash dry. Then the individual would insure dry with a patch, followed by an oily patch. Oil with the spoon was applied to designated friction points.

So, if your question was "What tools was Tommy Adkins issued?", the answer is for the most part "none".

HTH?

So oiler and thong then. Thanks.


"...We made Savages for them..." Savage made No. 4 rifles under contract. Savage did not make SMLE's. An SMLE is a No. 1 Mk whatever only. A No. 4 is not an SMLE.

Don't see where my claimed they were SMLEs....


Need an M-14 bayonet. Wouldn't pay the money they wanted years ago when I bought the Winchester.

There is no such thing as an M-14 bayonet as there is no such thing as an M-14.

Model of 1903 is M-1903. M-1911 is Model of 1911. When the Ordnance Department switched to model numbers, instead of year, the "dash" isn't used as it's not a year designator. Thus there is the M1 and M14 rifles and appropriate bayonets for them. Whereas the O.D. made the switch in the 1920s the Q.M. didn't. Thus the M14 rifle was typically issued with the M-1956 field gear.

The U.S. didn't make rifles in 14 AD.

Yes, I'm chuckling. You should be too.

I suspect, but do not know, that the pre-1905 manufactured Mills thing was used by Canadian troops. I know it's pre-1905 and the only record I have for what became Mills gear was used by Canadians.

[Art]

I have bayonets for all of my milsurps except my M1 Carbine. all of them have slings on them. All have the appropriate cleaning/maintenance kits. I have cartridge belts or ammo carriers for all my USGI weapons. I also have some period appropriate helmets. Yep. I like militaria; our son likes it more, the only thing he lacks to gear up and hit the beach at Normandy is the shirt, trousers, belt and shoes. Rifle, cartridge belt, musette bag, helmet, bayonet, canteen, first aid kit...he's got all that stuff. Well I guess he could use an E=Tool too.

[JB White]

I suspect, but do not know, that the pre-1905 manufactured Mills thing was used by Canadian troops. I know it's pre-1905 and the only record I have for what became Mills gear was used by Canadians.

Wasn't there a Mills web sling trialed for the US trapdoor?

[5MadFarmers]

Wasn't there a Mills web sling trialed for the US trapdoor?

Yes but not really gun specific. Just after the turn of the century.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/mills_sling.jpg

Not terribly different from the Brit one.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/enfield.jpg

A Savage gun at the same time.

http://5madfarmers.com/images_2016/savage.jpg

I wouldn't assume that sling is on that gun as that was a decade ago.

I'll bore you with the history of the Enfield. At that time I was just looking at gun technology. Lee is of local interest as he made his first gun in a place just south of where I live. Then, due to whatever, he moved an hour east and tried to succeed there. That meeting with lukewarm success he headed for the gun making region out east. The guns made here are of local interest and pop up from time to time. So, to people here anyway, Lees have an extra interest.

The place where he made his first gun is probably better known as the main plant for Hormel Chili.

[p246]

I have bayonets, slings, Oilers, pull cords for all my Lee Enfields (WW1 and 2 rifles to include cruciform for early No 4 mark 1). I need a sling for the M1917 and M95 Swede. I need a Bayonet for the 30 carbine I just got. I have a few helmets and odds and ends but don't go actively looking for them. My M1 Garand bayonets are all cut downs. I had some uncut versions but another collector waived too much cash so they went....moment of weakness.

[JB White]

Yes but not really gun specific. Just after the turn of the century.

That's the sling I was thinking of. Thank you.


The place where he made his first gun is probably better known as the main plant for Hormel Chili.

I know exactly where that is, as it's visible from the interstate on my way to Janesville. Never made the connection between canned chili and JP Lee! :)

[5MadFarmers]

That's the sling I was thinking of. Thank you.

No problem. They've been redone now so the fakes are showing up everywhere.


I know exactly where that is, as it's visible from the interstate on my way to Janesville. Never made the connection between canned chili and JP Lee! :)

That'd be it. When Lee was there he ordered, not being terribly familiar with guns, considerably too much powder. No way to easily move it to Milwaukee so he left it behind when he moved. Hormel located there as the available powder is what gives the chili its' zing.

The guns made in Milwaukee are highly sought after here. These:

Lee Arms Milwaukee (http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/56/lid/3104)

They do show up here so I suspect they were peddled out of Milwaukee after the war.

[JB White]

I thought the wives tale trick to making a mean junkyard dog was putting gunpowder in his food, and I've heard Hormel being called dog food so.... Let's not go there ;)

Interesting arm. Don't recall ever seeing one on the loose. If I did I likely didn't recognize it for what it was.

[John Sukey]

Got the collecting bug many years ago. 1944 BSA WM20, and a Cushman airborne,
Cartridge belts in 577-450 and .303
lots of grenades
2 inch mortar
Vickers
Bren
Sten
Webleys
and LOTS of SMLE'S and No4's
Don't need anymore

[John Sukey]

One final bit, got the uniform of the general who was in command of the evacuation of the troops at Dunkirk. His wife had thrown it in the rubbish tip to be burned and a friend rescued it.

[JB White]

One final bit, got the uniform of the general who was in command of the evacuation of the troops at Dunkirk. His wife had thrown it in the rubbish tip to be burned and a friend rescued it.

I got hold of a 1918 dated Prussian shako the same way. My father visited the widow of an old friend and saw her tossing it in the trash. Asked what she was doing she told him she was finally cleaning out all her late husbands old junk. He snagged it telling her I collected that kind of junk and asked where the rest of it was. Went out in the trash the week before. arrggg!

I still have that shako in the cabinet on display with a Prussian 98/05 bayonet crossing the helmet stand.

[John Sukey]

One more question. Anybody else have the bayonet for a 455 Webley?
Or for that matter, the shoulder stock holster for their HiPower?:icon_wink:

[John Sukey]

OK, since we are talking bayonets, anyone else have a Webley bayonet? (for the revolver)