cartouche info

[ElWoodman]

Curious as to the significance of a boxed "3GM-K" on lhs of stock? "E" stock, no "P", just an eagle head stamp with faint numbers. I have another Eddystone stock with the same markings, only also a "P" on the wrist. Thanks.

[pickax]

I asked the same question a number of years ago. Rick Slater replied it is an unknown WWII rebuild stamp.
There is speculation that it came from General Motors, but at this point there is no documentation on it.

[5MadFarmers]

There is speculation that it came from General Motors, but at this point there is no documentation on it.

I'm not picking on you. Ok? Just putting that here first.

The people that speculate that the cartouche is GM look at the letters and then guess. Which, to me, is a peculiar thing to do.

Using that logic, "FMC" would be "Ford Motor Company" instead of "Food Machinery Corporation." They made the M113 APC. So it's motorized. Ford made tanks and jeeps. Thus the "FMC" in the M113 must be Ford Motor Company. Except it's the Food Machinery Corporation people.

Some of the heavier ordnance from WW2 is marked "USMC." Thus it was for the United States Marine Corps. Not the "United Shoe Machinery Corporation" which made it.

See what I mean?

Mind if I advance the 3GM-K thing just a bit? It wasn't General Motors. There are three candidates and they're not one of them. How would we know? "General Motors wasn't paid to rebuild rifles." Three places were. GM wasn't one of the three. Given they'd not do that kind of work gratis it's not GM. I'm pretty sure I've unravelled it but I'd like to solve it from another angle to confirm it.

[PhillipM]

I'm not picking on you. Ok? Just putting that here first.

The people that speculate that the cartouche is GM look at the letters and then guess. Which, to me, is a peculiar thing to do.

Using that logic, "FMC" would be "Ford Motor Company" instead of "Food Machinery Corporation." They made the M113 APC. So it's motorized. Ford made tanks and jeeps. Thus the "FMC" in the M113 must be Ford Motor Company. Except it's the Food Machinery Corporation people.

Some of the heavier ordnance from WW2 is marked "USMC." Thus it was for the United States Marine Corps. Not the "United Shoe Machinery Corporation" which made it.

See what I mean?

Mind if I advance the 3GM-K thing just a bit? It wasn't General Motors. There are three candidates and they're not one of them. How would we know? "General Motors wasn't paid to rebuild rifles." Three places were. GM wasn't one of the three. Given they'd not do that kind of work gratis it's not GM. I'm pretty sure I've unravelled it but I'd like to solve it from another angle to confirm it.

Jerry cans marked USMC on the bottom stand for U.S. Metal Container Company.

[pickax]

I'd love to see you get to the bottom of it 5MF, you certainly have the resources and ability.
The speculation I spoke of was just as you described, folks making a conclusion due to the initials GM.
I too have the stamp on a '17, and if memory serves, have seen it in web pics on other rifle models.
Looking forward to your conclusions.

[5MadFarmers]

I'd love to see you get to the bottom of it 5MF, you certainly have the resources and ability.
The speculation I spoke of was just as you described, folks making a conclusion due to the initials GM.
I too have the stamp on a '17, and if memory serves, have seen it in web pics on other rifle models.
Looking forward to your conclusions.

How about a preview of the confusion? Ironically it's due, in a large part, to another set of initials. "RA."

"RA-P" right? "Raritan Arsenal." Everybody is aware of that. My question is: "why is everyone so sure that's Raritan?"

One of the big rifle companies is "Remington Arms." "RA." Oy. That's not good.

Is RA-P "Raritan?" Very well could be. Which, oddly enough, wouldn't matter overly much to this but it provides more confusion than I'd like. Why? Remington was one of the three companies with big rifle rebuild contracts. See the problem? What about Raritan? Well known for post-WW2 rifle work right? What did they do during WW2? "Rebuilt rifles." Argh. Being in Joisey they were convenient to the docks. Rifles, damaged, returned from the ETO hit Raritan. Which rebuilt them. So two places with "RA" are known to be rebuilding rifles at the same time.

Let's take it further. Raritan did that after the war. Remington didn't. So how do we know which were rebuilt went? We really don't. We can guess but guessing isn't helpful.

Outside of the fact that M-1917s were unlikely to have been rebuilt after the war.

So something of a dead-end. So pivot on the flank and attack from another direction right?

Three companies. Rebuilding rifles all about the same time. In three different locations. It's the "three locations" which next puts up a roadblock.

"Philadelphia QMD." Clothing. "Jeffersonville QMD." Field gear. "Chicago QMD." Food and food stuff like P-38 can openers. "New Jersey QMD." Medical and chemicals. "Kansas City QMD." Sporting gear.

The Quartermaster made life easy. All clothing was centered on Philly. Contracts were let from other Quartermaster places, Mira Loma as an example, but PQMD ran that show.

Ordnance likes to be different. One would think that "Springfield Armory" would be the "overlord" for rifles but they weren't. The O.D. created 13 "Ordnance Districts" and then each did pretty much the same thing but restricted to an area. So the QM had one place doing "overlord duty" for the continent whereas the O.D. had 13 regionally based offices. Sure they tended to "specialize" but it wasn't like the QM. Willy's was in Ohio. Dodge was in Detroit. Willy's received contracts from the Cleveland Ordnance District. Dodge, in Detroit, got them from the Detroit district.

The three rifle rebuild contracts were all in different districts. Which aren't in the district Raritan was in either.

Quite the puzzle. Another pivot on the flank is in order. That's where I'm at. So I hit it from another vector and I suspect I might have the answer. Some more digging is needed.

[pickax]

Well, its generally accepted Raritan was a rebuild facility, and Remington built new rifles. Not aware they had any rebuilding contracts.
The RA Remington stamp appears on later 03 A3s, and not on earlier '03s or '17s.
Agree the '17s were close to being declared obsolete and surplussed after the war as stated by Ferris.
The other common '17 rebuild stamp was Ogden, both Elmer Keith and Ed Klouser stamps are evident. I would think following the money would be the best course, but hope your other vector bears out. Carry on!

[RC20]

I don't have the resources but the key question has been asked.

Who had contracts that this could be a logical association for?

As not RA aka Rariton re-built arms, I have one from Baneatia (sp?) also who did that.

It would not seem to hard to find out but it sure has been a stickler.

[5MadFarmers]

Well, its generally accepted Raritan was a rebuild facility, and Remington built new rifles. Not aware they had any rebuilding contracts.

DA-301-15-ORD-2031. Contract work ran from 2/45 to 10/45. "Repairs, Rifle, Cal. .30." $272,000.


The RA Remington stamp appears on later 03 A3s, and not on earlier '03s or '17s.

Yeah. The cartouche on the new M-1903s would be for the manufacture. It's that repair contract I listed which is the bummer. While they phased down the M-1903 assembly of completed rifles the contracts for parts trickled into 1946. Which leads me to believe they repaired M-1903s but that's not a given. They had contracts to repair other rifles which are clearly not M-1903s. One is for a .22 rifle. Another is for shotguns. They had the tools and workforce in place.


Agree the '17s were close to being declared obsolete and surplussed after the war as stated by Ferris.
The other common '17 rebuild stamp was Ogden, both Elmer Keith and Ed Klouser stamps are evident. I would think following the money would be the best course, but hope your other vector bears out. Carry on!

The contracts are known. One is specifically for M-1917s. It still needs to be unwound. I like things pinned instead of "best guess." Next logical step is to troll the local newspapers. Big contract awards are often of local news. I know one contract is for M-1917s. It's the other two which I'd like to eliminate.

[5MadFarmers]

I don't have the resources but the key question has been asked.

Who had contracts that this could be a logical association for?

As not RA aka Rariton re-built arms, I have one from Baneatia (sp?) also who did that.

It would not seem to hard to find out but it sure has been a stickler.

B.A.? Benicia Arsenal. Near San Francisco. Before the Civil War it was home to the Camel Corps. Yes, Camels. In the late 1800s they dug a well there, for water, and the money they sunk into that thing was incredible. You'd think being that near to the ocean it would have been trivial but it clearly wasn't. Featured in their reports for a couple of years.

If you have a rifle with a Benicia rebuild stamp that's easier. Give me the initials and it's very likely I know who the inspector was.

During WW1 some of the munitions for Russian were shipped via San Francisco. Russian inspectors were put up at Benicia. I have their names too.

Benicia was an Arsenal. Those are easier. Much easier.