Unknown (to me) mark on #4 stock...

[mhb]

I recently acquired a very nice 1948 FTR'd #4 Mk 1 (1943 Shirley). It has all the markings one would expect on such a rifle, but there is one I haven't seen before. I'm hoping someone else has...37602

mhb - Mike

[p246]

BLB is associated to the Swedish Navy but I've never observed it on a L.E. Did the swedes possibly obtain some No.4s post WW2.

[Sunray]

"...the Swedes possibly obtain some..." Not likely. They were busy using AG42's from 1942 onwards. And M96 Mausers before that. I'd guess it was put there by 'some guy'. And not at the same time.

[mhb]

I'd have to agree that the Swedish connection seems unlikely, and that there may be no real explanation available.
Anyone else?

mhb - Mike

[p246]

"...the Swedes possibly obtain some..." Not likely. They were busy using AG42's from 1942 onwards. And M96 Mausers before that. I'd guess it was put there by 'some guy'. And not at the same time.

I figured a long shot. One of my friend collect swede rifles and bayonets. If memory served the BLB mark is only on his bayonets,,,But thought I'd throw it out.

[Merc]

Here's another long shot: The French term "BLB" refers to "Brigade Legere Blindee" or "Light Armored Brigade" with WW2 connections. Now, what the French would be doing with British No. 4 rifles is anyone's guess.

It's common to see US made military rifles with various stampings and cartouches on the stock. In my limited exposure to LE rifles I've only seen info stamped on metal rifle components so seeing something like this stamped on the stock probably means it was done by someone other than the British.

[mhb]

That is an interesting possibility, if difficult to prove. I believe that many of the Free French forces were armed with British equipment, and, later, U.S. gear. Still, a not-unlikely explanation.

mhb - Mike

[5MadFarmers]

When the French opened the boxes they were clueless on what to do with the flags. The manual coin counting machines were also probably something which could have been removed from the boxes before shipment....

The French units were armed using U.S. Tables of Equipment and Organization. Thus US flags and coin counting machines. Sorry, just thought that was amusing.

Britain agreed to supply a certain percentage of the stuff France needed with the rest coming from the U.S.. Given that Brownings were the machine guns of choice, rifles in .30-06 were indicated. Those were supplied by the Brits: M-1917 rifles. 167,000 were provided before Brit stocks were running at levels that they didn't want to provide more. M-1903s were provided after that. First shipment from the Brits was 8,000 delivered in January of 1943.

Backtrack earlier. The French were using, in addition to whatever French and Italian rifles they could lay their hands on, 19,000 captured German Mausers.

There is a very small window in between those two. The 1st Free French Division was provided .303s until the M-1917s arrived. Not many and not for long. Still that window exists.

I have no idea what that marking is but it "French" is probably unlikely.

[mhb]

Quel fromage!

mhb - Mike

[JB White]

I have no idea what that marking is but it "French" is probably unlikely.

It's also unlikely that wartime rifles dropped to the French would be returned for FTR and sent back to France to be marked.
Unlikely...but not absolutely entirely 110% impossible. We are talking Enfields and have been taught to never say never :)

[Merc]

So, this No. 4 might have an interesting story to tell if it was used by the French resistance.

[Merc]

That is an interesting possibility, if difficult to prove. I believe that many of the Free French forces were armed with British equipment, and, later, U.S. gear. Still, a not-unlikely explanation.

mhb - Mike

Mike,

Can you provide a full length photo of your unusual rifle?

[mhb]

Mike,

Can you provide a full length photo of your unusual rifle?

if you think it would be useful, but there is nothing at all unusual about the rifle, so far as I can tell, except the one marking I asked about. It is marked as having been FTR'd in 1948, carries all the normal inspection and acceptance stamps on metal and wood, and is in excellent shape inside and out, with little evidence of use since rebuild.
It would simplify things if you could specify what you'd like to see, exactly.

mhb - Mike

[Merc]

The stampings and cartouches would be interesting to see.

[JB White]

So, this No. 4 might have an interesting story to tell if it was used by the French resistance.

Merc, don't get your hopes up. I feel pretty certain the French connection has been debunked. Makes for interesting conversation as conversation flows, but not worth persuing that angle.
Seeing someone elses rifle isn't a bad thing though.
However, in the Enfield world it's under the term "oddity" along with a host of other markings we still don't know anything about. As far as tracking it down you might want to look into the Italian angle before the French. The Italians recently released a batch of post-war No4's in nice shape. Most were stored by the Italian Navy and many were released as surplus with many being in near-new condition. Only mentioning that because it was the most recent "Enfield Find" so it's logical to start there and work back. Better than chasing ghosts down a road to nowhere, eh? :)

[mhb]

Though I don't think they will add anything that might help resolve the issue. And, I have to apologize for the quality of the pics: partly the fault of my camera and skills, and partly due to the condition and/or locations of the markings, themselves.
Still, I don't find anything but the normal British markings:

mhb - Mike3764737648376493765037651

[mhb]

apparently, I couldn't add more than 5 attachments per submission...376523765337654

mhb - Mike

[Merc]

Mike,

BTW, currently visiting my sister in Cave Creek.

Your No. 4 is in nice shape. It's interesting to see the British made version. JB is probably correct. We may never know its history.

My 1944 Savage-built No. 4 has no comparable marks on the wood except two small letters near the trigger guard which were probably inspector's initials. All other marks are on the metal parts. The black paint on the metal parts was nearly all gone when I bought it.