Early carbine without original stock

[Sturwilh]

I want to limit my TD collection to early version guns. Regarding carbines, I know that original configuration guns, with the long wrist are usually priced pretty high and are desirable. What about the same carbine without the long wrist stock? I haven't seen one but I'm thinking they might be priced less and more plentiful.

[mr.j]

trapdoor collector web site had a early one for sale but not sure if still is as I dont see it anymore. The one with the replacement stocks are just as rare I would think since they didint make to many of them without the compartment for cleaning rod in the butt. I would also assume a parts gun would be cheaper and it depends on the seller he may think its worth a million. The pre 1876 rifles or carbines seem to be getting harder to find these days.

[Dick Hosmer]

The gold standard is obviously an unaltered long wrist, and they are hard to find and expensive when you do. Less that 750 short wrist/no trap stocks were made, so they are equally - if not more - hard to find. I've handled exactly one in 50 years of collecting but have owned several long wrists. So, if you are determined to have an "as made" early carbine, it will not be easy.

A decent M1877, or low numbered "M1879" (actually of course a late 1873) can be had in the $1000 to $1500 range, for a filler until you find your goal. If you do buy a parts gun - which will be a lot cheaper and you do not have to take any guff from the seller - look for one where the patina matches, and where the replacement parts make logical and chronological sense.

Good luck on your quest.

[Sturwilh]

The gold standard is obviously an unaltered long wrist, and they are hard to find and expensive when you do. Less that 750 short wrist/no trap stocks were made, so they are equally - if not more - hard to find. I've handled exactly one in 50 years of collecting but have owned several long wrists. So, if you are determined to have an "as made" early carbine, it will not be easy.


If you do buy a parts gun - which will be a lot cheaper and you do not have to take any guff from the seller - look for one where the patina matches, and where the replacement parts make logical and chronological sense.

Good luck on your quest.

Thanks mr.j and Dick. WOW, I didn't realize these were so scarce. Hypothetically then, if I find a short wrist/no trap stock from a parts gun or stand-alone, say at a gun show and beat others to it, what would be a fair/practical ballpark price?

[Dick Hosmer]

It's kind of a well-kept secret, and only really demented TD weenies (like myself) even care, so - given their scarcity, it is not a problem to lose any sleep over!

To someone who knew what they had, I'm sure such a stock would be valued at several hundred dollars; but - I truly think the hardest part will be finding it, not paying for it. I'll have to look in my notes - there may have been more made than I said, but not a whole lot more.

[Sturwilh]

Given the scarcity I'm sure the chance of finding one is totally minuscule. Regardless, it would be good to know approximately how many were sent into the field. Also, reducing the surviving quantity with the condemnation of carbines below 50,000, how many might exist today.

[Dick Hosmer]

Don't forget that, when seeking such a stock, you really have to be on lookout for cutdown rifle wood!

[mr.j]

Wow Dick you owned several long wrist carbines! were they more abundant back then when you started collecting?

[Sturwilh]

Yes,there are many cut down rifle stocks out there; I am aware of how to quickly spot them. Thanks.

[Dick Hosmer]

Wow Dick you owned several long wrist carbines! were they more abundant back then when you started collecting?

Yes, they were. The 1970s were the 'golden age' if you had done your homework, as the masses did not really understand the TD rarities until the first good books (Frasca/Hill, and to a lesser extent, Waite/Ernst) came out around 1980. Probably 6 or 7 have passed through my hands - certainly less than ten, and I still own two (16572 and 34752). There is a gentleman in Wisconsin who owns over 30, and other sizable hoards are known. I have compiled about 1250 serials so far, of the 20,000 long-wrists made. A great number of the arms were scrapped during the 1879-80 recall, with many of the usable parts going into the starred arms of the early 1880s.

[rickhill]

Dick:

Here are a couple more short comb, long wrist 1873's for your survey: #30997 all original rifle & #43332 all original carbine. I can send more detail and/or pictures if desired.


Rick Hill

[mr.j]

Add photos

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick:

Here are a couple more short comb, long wrist 1873's for your survey: #30997 all original rifle & #43332 all original carbine. I can send more detail and/or pictures if desired.


Rick Hill

Thanks Rick - you had given me that data in 2005, but I appreciate the continued support.

[Sturwilh]

Add photos

Photos would be great!!

[Sturwilh]

The gold standard is obviously an unaltered long wrist, and they are hard to find and expensive when you do. Less that 750 short wrist/no trap stocks were made, so they are equally - if not more - hard to find. I've handled exactly one in 50 years of collecting but have owned several long wrists. So, if you are determined to have an "as made" early carbine, it will not be easy.


A decent M1877, or low numbered "M1879" (actually of course a late 1873) can be had in the $1000 to $1500 range, for a filler until you find your goal. If you do buy a parts gun - which will be a lot cheaper and you do not have to take any guff from the seller - look for one where the patina matches, and where the replacement parts make logical and chronological sense.

I just looked over this post from a few months ago and was wondering what is meant here by "parts gun". I'm assuming this term used here by Dick Hosmer is not referring to a damaged gun with some useful or salvageable parts. I'm thinking it is reference to a "put together" gun. Am I right?

[Dick Hosmer]

Yes, that is correct - in the context of that discussion I was speaking of a put-together piece. Virgins are always hard to find, and there are a lot of reasons why "as made" long-wrist carbines have become really scarce.

Sad to say (as it is my generation) but I'd think that some of the larger trapdoor collections that were begun in the 1970s (which is about when the arms finally became noticed) will be broken up over the next few years.

[Sturwilh]

Thanks Dick, I'm getting up there too so I'm afraid I'm not likely to find an "as made" early carbine with the REPLACEMENT stock but but I'll be trying to "put together" one of them. I'm up for the challenge!!

[sdkrag]

Dick, What was the story behind the "Star" Serial numbers? My father-in-law had a carbine at one time.