Russian 91/30 PU rifles.

[MJ1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/bcc6b95a.jpg

...:1948:....

[El Paso Mark]

Nice. I have one too, purchase in the Tuco group buy back in '99. Will have to post a few pix.

Cheers,

Mark

[MJ1]

Found mine between '88 and '92.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/2f468e8a.jpg

Cheers

[pelago]

EVER SHOT AT TARGET AT 600 YARDS??

Since there are no audible clicks with the scope how did one remember elevation and windage from 200 yard zero???

i entered the cmp sniper for eastern games, and do not want to get totally embarrased and will be using winchester fmj 180 grains, bought three hundred rounds to work up the rifle

serious suggestions would be nice

like i said dont want to be embarrased too much

[MJ1]

zero for 300 and learn your hold off or mark the drum your self. I have a friend in the UK who is using 15'H and 6'R hold at 900 meters with the Swedish 6.5X55 M41b and wins natioonal matchs. If your bracket has been centered with he bore then you should be OK but still practice a few times. If you just slap the bracket on there and only use the drums only to zero you will never make the distance and the error will multiply past you zero. There are several articals on alignment of the scope and bracket and setting the drums after. Clicks? We don't use no stinking clicks amigo. No I have never shoot one at 600 yards 400 yes. From my 100y zero I have almost 6' of drop at 400y. Why would I try 600y? For 600 I wold use an Enfield which I do shoot 600 with. Good luck and use very good ammo. 174g SMK bullets and IMR 4064 if you can. Please post you efforts as I would like to know how it goes.

....200y...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/1cbff7e6.jpg

Cheers

[Art]

EVER SHOT AT TARGET AT 600 YARDS??

Since there are no audible clicks with the scope how did one remember elevation and windage from 200 yard zero???

i entered the cmp sniper for eastern games, and do not want to get totally embarrased and will be using winchester fmj 180 grains, bought three hundred rounds to work up the rifle

serious suggestions would be nice

like i said dont want to be embarrased too much

I remember reading the process for zeroing these rifles years ago. I believe the system is set up for 147 gr light ball but don't hold me to that.

1. Bring a lot of ammo.

2. You initially zero the rifle with the telescopic sight base, not the scope adjustments. With that in mind set the elevation adjustment on 100 meters and the windage adjustment on zero.

3. A boresighter wouldh help a lot wiht this part. Using the screws on the base zero the rifle to hit the point of aim at 100 meters. If you don't have a borsighter it takes a LOT of ammunition to zero the weapon. Do not fiddle with the scope knobs at all during this stage

4. With the rifle thus sighted in to hit at 200 yards with the rifle zeroed for 100 yards simply move the elevation dial to the 200 yard mark. The person I know of who did this said the rifle hit amazingly close to the center of the target at 200 yards with no other adjustment than moving the elevation nob to the appropriate range.

Again, this only works with tha ammunition the system was designed with in mind.

Happy shooting

Quite an ingenious set up in my humble opinion

[Donb in Fl]

What is the difference between the sniper mosin and the regular Mosin rifle. Im sure they have been worked over. How did the improve the trigger pull????????????

[Art]

What is the difference between the sniper mosin and the regular Mosin rifle. Im sure they have been worked over. How did the improve the trigger pull????????????

I understand that besides the turned down bolt and the scope and mount there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the regular and sniper versions. I have read that like the Brits the Soviets would pick rifles that showed exceptional accuracy in testing to be used in the sniper role. How much modification was done beyond that point I'll defer to true experts on the weapons for.

I've found triggers on Moisin-Nagants to be consistant in their inconsistancy. The ones I've tried seem to vary from very good to very poor. I actually own an M 44 that has a very, very good trigger. Just luck of the draw I guess.

[MJ1]

Dont forget your flat file and square.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/46202282.jpg

[Enfield trader]

clamp the rifle in a sight and vise shooting rest
removed the bolt and look thru the bore and center your target in the bore
adjust the mount so the post is centered in the target
fire 3 rounds and check your target and adjust as needed

The post when zeroed at 100 should be in the top 1/2 of the scope so you have the full elevation of the scope.

[pelago]

was asked why shoot at 600 yards, well here it is, CMP Eastern games is adding "sniper rifle" class as a experiment, 15 rounds at 300, 15 at 600..
there will be sighters but you dont see them til you shoot all five??? not sure i understand that, but thems the rules

now i have a springfield with a unertl scope on it but it has a match trigger and that is a no not, and that is one of the two vintage rifles (sniper that is) that i have, dont plan on spending big bucks to just do this also,

sniper rifles have to be 'as issued' so its a moissin nagant or be a spectator

looking at some winchester 180 fmj to see what is what

[MJ1]

You had better got to work then. Again use the best ammo or stay home. The PU rifle was made after the Germans got to town so kind of rough and loose war time production under the worst conditions. Good luck.

[John from the Cereal City]

Trigger pull is easy, check out http://www.huberconcepts.com/Mosin-Nagant_Trigger_Replacement.htm

[MJ1]

In the UK at Bisley they have a match like that. It's called the Trafalgar match. Nothing newer than 1946 and original issue parts. Will a Huber trigger pass the rules? I would think a tune up on the original would be in order. There is a lot that can be done and I have original rifles with very good triggers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/4cd73a10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/f9e7f2c7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/e61172e9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/096fae26.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/2e24a45e.jpg

[pelago]

one more question,, using the orignal scope, what do you reckon the field of view is at 600 yards, these scopes not much on magnification as far as i can tell, and really, probably going to use center mass at 600 yards


but should be fun, even if only to see all the rifles

wth it is shooting aint it??

[MJ1]

I don't know, run out there and wave your arms at me. I think you need to try another scope/rifle with more leg or as I said before get out and practice with the best ammo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/939dd52f.jpg

[30cal_Fun]

Nice rifles MJ1!

looks like the stocks are refinished, did you do that yourself? they don't have that shiny shellac coat. did you use tru-oil?

if so, can you explain what and how you did it?

Louis

[MJ1]

A little BLO/tirpintine on the yellow one because it was dry.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/d349302d.jpg

[30cal_Fun]

The final product looks very good.
was it without finish when you got it?

I think a good hand rubbed oil finish looks great on any stock, I would like to refinish my stock on my 91/30, but I think I will go for a matte Tru-oil finish. I've seen a lot of good work with it, and it is much more available here I live.

Not to start the age old discussion between the two, but how did the BLO work out? does it take much drying time between coats, and how many coats did you apply?

[MJ1]

It's been so long I can't recall but it did suck up the first coat so kept it wet for an hour then wiped it down and I'm sure I did it again next day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/c9ec86f5.jpg

[Marcus]

30cal, if those are WW2Yugo issue PU rifles Jack is showing, they generally don't have the shellac finish, and especially not the Soviet post-war refurb stuff, as most of these rifles left Soviet possession in early 1944. The Yugoslavian's preferred stock finish is oiled bare wood.

Would the CMP sniper competition rules allow the use of a replica scope that is a copy of the original? I'm just wondering how a PE scoped replica sniper or restored "ex"-sniper might do compared to a PU rifle. A PEM siderail style rifle would be kind of costly because of the $400 price of a good replica mount setup and a couple hundered for a replica PE scope, but you can get the replica PE scopes with a current Ukrainian production replica top-mount setup for around $300.

For real snipers, I think PU's are about the most affordable with Soviet refurbs like the RGuns rifles or earlier imports currently in the $800 to $1,000 range and the scopeless Yugo issue rifles in the $300 to $500 range plus another $350 to $450 for a nice complete scope setup. A restored PU ex-sniper with a real or current Ukrainian or Russian replica scope setup will cost about the same as re-scoping a scopeless Yugo, but you will have a replica sniper bolt and stock made from standard items, instead of the genuine ones on the Yugo rifle.

If you could find one of the Yugo M48 series sniper rifles with a good bore and locate a ZRAK or other suitable and correct scope setup, it would also probably come in around $700-$800.

Next would probably be a Swede M41B - the lower end ones seem to be around $1,200 to $1,400 right now, but the top-condition all matching ones are getting harder to find and going up in price. I have 5 of the original WW2 era M41's (not the post-war M41B) that I've acquired over the past 6 or 7 months. 2 are still in need of scope setups, but 2 have AGA M/42 scopes and one has an AGA M/44 glass. The original M41 rifles are a lot harder to find and a little pricier than M41B's - I have about $1,800 into one of the M/42 rifles, about $1,700 into the M/44 rifle, and the other M/42 scoped rifle set me back around $700 for the rifle and $1,400 for the scope setup, plus shipping on both items.

Replica Mosin PU snipers (most are being pimped off as original these days) can be found in the $400-$500 range, and a replice PE sniper could probably be put together in the $600-$700 range. Then there are those $900 replica 03A4 snipers out there, but I wouldn't try any serious shooting with a replica or real Weaver 330/M73B1 scope....just to small and fragile. I've seen sporterized A3's fairly cheap that would make great replica snipers, and recent production Redfield Jr. mount setups are cheap enough. If you use a Lyman Alaskan or Weaver K4 60-B scope it's a lot more affordable than a decent size original military scope like the M81, 82, or 84.

Then there are the replica 98k snipers. I don't have any personal experience with these, but using one of the various East European captured 98k's and a replica mount setup with either a replica scope or original WW2 period German scope it seems like one could build one of these up in the $800 to $1,200 range.