View Full Version : Smith-Corona "C" prefix rifles
Not sure if this has been asked before but, is there a known number of how many SC 03A3's have the "C" prefix serial number? How many are known to still be around? VI Shooter's page doesn't list many at all. Just wondering because I have C371142x.
Thanks,
Jim
John Beard
10-14-2016, 07:30
Your rifle is unusual and rare indeed! Not only does it have a "C" prefix, it also has an "x" suffix! I wish I could find one of those!
Some people have all the luck! :icon_rolleyes:
J.B. :hello:
Smith-Corona was assigned a block of serial numbers for the 03-A3s that they were producing. Remington accidentally used 3,600 of the serial numbers that were supposed to be used on the S-C rifles. S-C also used those same 3,600 serial numbers but added a "C" prefix in order to differentiate between their 03-A3s and those produced by Remington. So, yours is one of only 3,600 S-C produced 03-A3s to carry a C prefix. I don't believe that there's any data out there that that would indicate how many C prefixed serial numbers are still around.
There's a good article on the history of S-C's 03-A3 on this forum. Look on page 9 of the thread "Buying a M1903."
John Beard
10-14-2016, 10:10
Smith-Corona was assigned a block of serial numbers for the 03-A3s that they were producing. Remington accidentally used 3,600 of the serial numbers that were supposed to be used on the S-C rifles. S-C also used those same 3,600 serial numbers but added a "C" prefix in order to differentiate between their 03-A3s and those produced by Remington. So, yours is one of only 3,600 S-C produced 03-A3s to carry a C prefix. I don't believe that there's any data out there that that would indicate how many C prefixed serial numbers are still around.
There's a good article on the history of S-C's 03-A3 on this forum. Look on page 9 of the thread "Buying a M1903."
Actually, it was the other way around. Smith-Corona overran their allocated block of serial numbers and into the block of serial numbers allocated to Remington. So Smith-Corona had to make amends by prefixing their duplicate serial numbers.
J.B.
cplnorton
10-15-2016, 05:18
No kidding? That is one I had never heard of till today. I guess there is always something new to learn. :)
Kragrifle
10-15-2016, 05:22
New to me as well. What was the x for?
Actually, it was the other way around. Smith-Corona overran their allocated block of serial numbers and into the block of serial numbers allocated to Remington. So Smith-Corona had to make amends by prefixing their duplicate serial numbers.
J.B.
John,
The American Rifleman wrote a great article on the history of the Smith-Corona 03-A3. They devote a small paragraph to the serial number problem. According to AR, it was Remington who did the deed. Do you have another source that indicates otherwise?
Here's the article:
HTTPS://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/3/12/the-smith-corona-03a3s/
JiminLE,
I'll ask the forum the obvious question for you:
So, with only 3,600 S-C 03-A3s with a C prefixed serial number produced, and an undetermined quantity remaining, how much more $$$ are they worth than your average S-C 03-A3 without the C prefix?
There's another interesting S-C 03-A3 variant. According to the American Rifleman article, early in production of S-Cs 03-A3, High Standard Co. was supplying rifle barrels to S-C and acquired about 5,000 commercial 6 groove barrels from Savage and received a waiver from the govt. to supply them to S-C. So, take a look at the rifling in your S-C 03-A3 and see if the barrel has 6 grooves.
PhillipM
10-15-2016, 02:34
John,
The American Rifleman wrote a great article on the history of the Smith-Corona 03-A3. They devote a small paragraph to the serial number problem. According to AR, it was Remington who did the deed. Do you have another source that indicates otherwise?
Here's the article:
HTTPS://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/3/12/the-smith-corona-03a3s/
The better question is where did American Rifleman get its source? JB's idea of a vacation getaway is studying original documents in the National Archives.
New to me as well. What was the x for?
Easy - "x" marks the spot! :1948:
cplnorton
10-15-2016, 03:26
The better question is where did American Rifleman get its source?
Man isn't that the truth. lol I only study Marine Corps weapons, so that is the only topic I know enough to pick out the articles that are full of crap. But man some of these big names in these books literally just make up stuff.
I have much more faith in many members on this forum, than I do in some of the biggest name aurthors out there.
The better question is where did American Rifleman get its source? JB's idea of a vacation getaway is studying original documents in the National Archives.
I'm sure that JB will let us know if the American Rifleman's article is incorrect.
PhillipM
10-15-2016, 05:07
I'm sure that JB will let us know if the American Rifleman's article is incorrect.
He already did
He already did
JB disputed the article but hasn't said why.
John Beard
10-15-2016, 06:36
I'm sure that JB will let us know if the American Rifleman's article is incorrect.
Let's just say that the American Rifleman article is lacking in accuracy, and leave it at that. I stand by my original statement.
J.B.
JB,
I actually have no personal opinion on who did what. I only repeated what I read to help the forum member and assumed the AR writer knew what he was talking about. Since you've obviously researched the subject, I'll say you're correct and let it be.
So, how much of a premium do you think a Smith-Corona 03-A3 with a C prefix serial number can command?
John Beard
10-15-2016, 09:15
JB,
I actually have no personal opinion on who did what. I only repeated what I read to help the forum member and assumed the AR writer knew what he was talking about. Since you've obviously researched the subject, I'll say you're correct and let it be.
So, how much of a premium do you think a Smith-Corona 03-A3 with a C prefix serial number can command?
I am not offended in the least.
I believe a C-prefix Smith-Corona rifle would command about a 25% premium. The rifles are a bit scarce, but not rare.
J.B.
I am not offended in the least.
I believe a C-prefix Smith-Corona rifle would command about a 25% premium. The rifles are a bit scarce, but not rare.
J.B.
The same AR article mentioned another Smith-Corona variant that's interesting. High Standard Co. got a govt. waiver to furnish S-C with 5,000 unfinished 6 groove commercial barrels that were used in their 03-A3s. I suppose a rare S-C 03-A3 would be one that has both?
So, there are two letters C, Z that were used to denote duplicate serial number. Is there a relation ship to the manufacture, C being Smith Corona and Z being Remington. Are there and other letter used?
So, there are two letters C, Z that were used to denote duplicate serial number. Is there a relation ship to the manufacture, C being Smith Corona and Z being Remington. Are there and other letter used?
There's a reference to Remington 03-A4s with Z serial numbers on www.oldguns.net. Look on the left column under Manufacturing Dates, click on US Military, then click on M1903A4 Rifle Remington. They don't say anything about duplicate serial numbers. Maybe JB can help.
I have 2 Remington A3's that are not A4's with the Z to the left of the serial number. These are duplicate s/n's of some other serial numbers in the Government system. There were a number of A3's with the Z but I do not know the total.
John Beard
10-16-2016, 07:59
The same AR article mentioned another Smith-Corona variant that's interesting. High Standard Co. got a govt. waiver to furnish S-C with 5,000 unfinished 6 groove commercial barrels that were used in their 03-A3s. I suppose a rare S-C 03-A3 would be one that has both?
The 6-groove barrels were used on early production rifles and were virtually all gone by the time of the C-prefix rifles. But I do not believe that a six-groove C-prefix rifle would be worth much premium. One would be challenged to prove that it's the original barrel.
To my knowledge, the exact quantity of six-groove barrels is unknown, although it's probably a bit more than 5,000. And to my knowledge, they were not commercial barrels.
J.B.
John Beard
10-16-2016, 08:01
So, there are two letters C, Z that were used to denote duplicate serial number. Is there a relation ship to the manufacture, C being Smith Corona and Z being Remington. Are there and other letter used?
I do not know why the "C"-prefix was assigned to Smith-Corona and the "Z"-prefix was assigned to Remington. But certainly the prefixes are manufacturer-specific. And yes, other letters were used to denote duplicate serial numbers.
J.B.
JB, the x is a 5.
What's the highest serial number anyone has seen or heard of with the "C" prefix? Also what would have been the first?
John Beard
10-17-2016, 09:30
JB, the x is a 5.
What's the highest serial number anyone has seen or heard of with the "C" prefix? Also what would have been the first?
Got it! Thanks! Your rifle's serial number was already in my data base.
Smith-Corona's original contract was for 100,000 rifles and they were issued a 100,000 serial number block beginning with S/N 3608000. The first "C"-prefix rifle, therefore, would have been S/N C3708000. S/N C3708010 has been observed and documented, thereby confirming the accuracy.
The highest-known C-prefix rifle was reported to me in confidence and I am not at liberty to release it at this time.
J.B.
p.s.,
I just discovered that I have documentation confirming the actual highest C-prefix serial number.
John, do you have the same information on the Remington A3's with the Z prefix? I will send you a PM with my serial numbers
JB, ok...I was always under the impression that there were only about 3600 rifles with the "C" prefix.....so.... do tell if you can what the actual highest number was, please.
Jim
John Beard
10-19-2016, 08:02
John, do you have the same information on the Remington A3's with the Z prefix? I will send you a PM with my serial numbers
The only block of Remington Z-prefix rifles are the M'03-A4's starting at S/N Z4000000. All A3 Z-prefix Remingtons have scattered serial numbers and are not concentrated in a block.
Many thanks for your rifle's serial numbers!
J.B.
John Beard
10-19-2016, 08:06
JB, ok...I was always under the impression that there were only about 3600 rifles with the "C" prefix.....so.... do tell if you can what the actual highest number was, please.
Jim
The number is higher than 3600. I am unable to post the number publicly. But if you PM me, I can send it to you in confidence.
J.B.
PhillipM
10-19-2016, 09:02
I am not offended in the least.
I believe a C-prefix Smith-Corona rifle would command about a 25% premium. The rifles are a bit scarce, but not rare.
J.B.
Apologies for the tangent, but this reminds me of a post long ago by C.R.F. regarding Mk1 rifles. A new poster thought he had something special and C.R.F. said that at 1/10th of total1903 production, they aren't rare, they are not even scarce!
RIP Kip.
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