View Full Version : Surplus LC brass
barretcreek
11-01-2016, 06:15
Anyone have experience with fired LC 7.62 brass? I have heard this is usually out of MG and is pain to size, needs trimming and sometimes the base is expanded a lot. Correct?
m1ashooter
11-01-2016, 10:02
I haven't had problems with surplus 7.62 brass.
"...Correct?..." Sometimes. Nothing else but MG's and DM M-14 rifles are using 7.62NATO anymore.
You need to check the lengths and trim, chamfer and deburr, as required only, and FL size BNIB brass too. The milsurp 7.62 stuff usually needs the primer pocket swaging removed too. A one time nuisance thing.
Never heard of any brass being particularly hard to size though.
us019255
11-05-2016, 06:11
I purchased a bunch a number of years ago. One batch had about 25% that had been fired in a machine gun with excess head space. There was a ring from where it was stretched. I learned the hard way to check each case for a ring and discard the bad one's. The rest was fine and reloads many times with no problem.
Yes, you do have to ream primer pocket and check length. Big deal.
I have heard of reloaders having trouble sizing brass they assumed was fired in a machine gun. None of the reloaders that were complaining measured the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before sizing and again after sizing so they did not know if they were trying to size a work hardened case or a case that was fired in a machine gun. If the case was fired in a machine gun it would be a once fired case.
None of the complainers listed the press they were using, they did not list the lube they were using and then there was no mention of the dies used. I have forming dies, if a case starts to get the best of one of my presses I change to forming dies, if the case starts to get the best of my forming dies I switch lubes. I use a no-name lube for the tuff-to-size cases; for most of my work any-old-lube will do.
I have never experienced difficulty when sizing 7.62 NATO cases, I have formed 308 W cases from 30/06 cases. I know; WHY? I use 30/06 cases to tighten chambers with loose necks. It did not improve the accuracy of the bench rest type rifles but ‘again’ reloaders was complaining about loose necks.
F. Guffey
Hefights
11-11-2016, 07:05
I used to get mine from Top Brass (Scharch Manufacturing) out of Colorado, they also cater to Cowboy Action shooters like Evil Roy, specializing in handgun brass. Their processed LC 7.62 was great quality. Now it appears to be running 28 cents per piece processed, very expensive, but you would not have to worry about it giving you any problems.
With MG fired brass, some will likely never come into tolerance no matter what dies you use, you could try small base if you get some that is stretched bad and see how it does.
With MG fired brass, some will likely never come into tolerance no matter what dies you use, you could try small base if you get some that is stretched bad and see how it does.
tolerance no matter what dies you use, you could try small base if you get some that is stretched
Does anyone measure brass before and again after firing? Does anyone measure fired brass after purchasing? Does anyone measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder before lowering the ram?
F. Guffey
Hefights
11-12-2016, 06:17
I measure after purchase, and during re-sizing process, and if the brass cannot get into specs to pass a case gage, it doesnt get loaded into my semi auto rifles.
I get by real good with the tools of the trade, and common sense.
I measure after purchase, and during re-sizing process, and if the brass cannot get into specs to pass a case gage, it doesnt get loaded into my semi auto rifles.
I have case gages, my case gage can be used for measuring fired and sized cases. For most that is not a problem but my case gages do not measure machinegun fired cases. I also have chamber gages, if a case fails my chamber in a chamber gage I will guarantee the case will not chamber in one of my rifles.
The problem: The diameter of the case gage is too large; the case gage is a datum based tool. It measures the length of the case from the datum to the case head and from the datum to the end of the neck. The perceived problem with the machine gun case is believed to be the case is removed from the chamber with enough pressure remaining in the chamber to stretch the unsupported case in length and in diameter.
"length and in diameter": The case gage measures the length of the case from the shoulder/datum to the head of the case but the case gage is used to measure fired cases. So I ask again; does anyone measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder before lowering the ram? I do; I measure the gap between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder with a feeler gage. If my press, die and shell holder does not or can not return the case to minimum length/gull length sized there will be a gap. If the case whips my press there are ways to increase the presses' ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.
I have presses that are marginal, I do not use them but I have them 'JIC' as in just in case.
F. Guffey
And then there is the chamber the case is fired in; manufactures of ammo do not make ammo for two 7.62 NATO chambers meaning the machinegun chamber is generous. When fired the case forms to the chamber in length and diameter. Returning the case to minimum length requires the press to have the ability to overcome the cases' ability to resist sizing.
F. Guffey
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html
And then if the difference between the 308 W chamber and the 7.62 NATO chambers can be believed the 7.65 NATO chamber starts out longer and more generous. And then there is that thing about being pulled/or is it pushed from the chamber before the pressures drops.
F. Guffey
[QUOTE=fguffey;477566]http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html
And then if the difference between the 308 W chamber and the 7.62 NATO chambers can be believed the 7.65 NATO chamber starts out longer and more generous. And then there is that thing about being pulled/or is it pushed from the chamber before the pressures drops.
You brought up a great point here. Being a FN FAL guy I ran into an issue with a build in the 90s. It was a South African Metric Kit that ended up in Rhodesia. This was one of the beater kits on the cheap. I think I paid 89.00 for the kit. Built it on an Imbel Receiver. Once built it would shoot 7.62 by 51 fine. With 308 brass I had to be opened up the gas adjustment and it stretched the case badly length wise. Being a newb at the time I had to consult with a gunsmith. The chamber was generous even for 7.62 and he told me to stay away from 308. It would shoot steel case Russian 308 though FYI.
There is also an intel report from Syria where ISIS was having issues shooting commercial 308 in their FN FALs. I hope a few of those blew. Anyway there is a difference as I learned the hard way.
As far as measuring shoulder to base, flash hole size etc. I do now but bench rest reloading got me into that. In the early days I shoulder bumped to SAMMI specs and trimmed.
If my case work hardens below the shoulder in 308 or 7.62 I scrap them, but I have access to free brass in 4 calibers those being two of them.
I generally like Lake City Brass. I was given A bunch of LC 69 in 30-06 and got a bucket full of 7.62 X 51 about 10 years ago. It's mixed year but has been consistent.
Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0685_zpslfv5nwwc.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0685_zpslfv5nwwc.jpg.html)
Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0685_zpslfv5nwwc.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0685_zpslfv5nwwc.jpg.html)
So you did not measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before firing and you did not measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head after sizing? Meaning you do not know if your chamber caused the case head separation; nor do you know if the cases heads were well on their way to separating before you started.
F. Guffey
Of coarse I did. I started with new M80 147 gr LC 10. These would have been in the neighborhood of 1.627 -8 before 1st firing. When resized I bring them to 1.628 and they are fired in .308 chambers that I cut to 1.632. If they had been good brass initially, this would not have happened. I run many K of varied brass annually and this is the first time in over 50 years that I have seen this result. Normally I can expect a minimum of 4 to 6 loadings on good brass. I just ran a batch of RA-68 600 rounds that is on it's 5 th loading and will join the LC10 in the salvage bucket in the next couple of weeks.
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0679_zpsfcebr5ho.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0679_zpsfcebr5ho.jpg.html)
Used a lot of LC brass over the years. Only stuff I have had a problem with is just recently LC 10 from M80. This photo shows case failure after 1st loading. I just dumped a few hundred in the salvage bucket.
These would have been in the neighborhood of 1.627 -8 before 1st firing. When resized I bring them to 1.628 and they are fired in .308 chambers that I cut to 1.632.
I understood everything you said; The difference in length between the case from the shoulder of the case to case head and shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face was .004". I can reduce the clearance to .000" but there is no manufacturer that makes a new case for long chambers so I form long cases to off set the extra length of a long chamber. Then there is that part that is complicated; that would be the part that comes when the trigger is pulled: Reloaders are infatuated with 'moving the shoulder', I always ask; "How do you do that?" because I find it almost impossible and then they claim they 'bump' the shoulder and again I ask; "How do you do that?".
Long chamber? You do not have a long chamber and there is no reason for you to experience case head separation on the first firing.
F. Guffey
My M-1 Garand has a Navy NM 308 Barrel on it. Reason for the 308 barrel was the lack of 3006 brass on the base I worked on. I started with a 5 gallon bucket of M-60 machinegun brass. I dumped half of it in the tub ( wife claws came out on that one) added some very warm water and a LOT of Dawn dish washing soap. I wanted to make sure the brass was oil and dirt free. Remember this brass came out of the field. Then I got in trouble again. Just because I used the wife's cookie sheets to dry the brass in the oven ( 100 degree's ) she once again said gee whiz. Once the brass was clean and dry I started working on it I used a RCBS single stage sizing die and went to work. I lubed each piece and ran it through the die which also deprimed it. Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die. Those are the one's that went into the recycle can. It lead me to believe that some M-60 machine gun chambers are a little to big in diameter. The good stuff went into the tumbler. I used a Grace case trimmer to get them all the same length. I set the trimmer using a case length gauge Then broke out the Dillon swagger and swaged all the primer pockets..I then chucked the primer pocket reamer in my electric drill, gently put the drill in the vice and made sure all the primer pockets were the same. Agreed this was a lot of work and time consuming, but it payed off. I still shoot this stuff. Have reloaded some of it on more than one occasion WITH NOT ONE CASE SEPERATION OR JAM. I use Winchester primers, 42 grains of 4065 and 168 grain sierra hpbt projectiles .
My M-1 Garand has a Navy NM 308 Barrel on it. Reason for the 308 barrel was the lack of 3006 brass on the base I worked on. I started with a 5 gallon bucket of M-60 machinegun brass. I dumped half of it in the tub ( wife claws came out on that one) added some very warm water and a LOT of Dawn dish washing soap. I wanted to make sure the brass was oil and dirt free. Remember this brass came out of the field. Then I got in trouble again. Just because I used the wife's cookie sheets to dry the brass in the oven ( 100 degree's ) she once again said gee whiz. Once the brass was clean and dry I started working on it I used a RCBS single stage sizing die and went to work. I lubed each piece and ran it through the die which also deprimed it. Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die. Those are the one's that went into the recycle can. It lead me to believe that some M-60 machine gun chambers are a little to big in diameter. The good stuff went into the tumbler. I used a Grace case trimmer to get them all the same length. I set the trimmer using a case length gauge Then broke out the Dillon swagger and swaged all the primer pockets..I then chucked the primer pocket reamer in my electric drill, gently put the drill in the vice and made sure all the primer pockets were the same. Agreed this was a lot of work and time consuming, but it payed off. I still shoot this stuff. Have reloaded some of it on more than one occasion WITH NOT ONE CASE SEPERATION OR JAM. I use Winchester primers, 42 grains of 4065 and 168 grain sierra hpbt projectiles .
I always make sure wife is gone when I borrow her stuff for reloading:)
Now I know some will disagree with this. Some of that brass even though lubed did not want to go in the sizing die.
Who measures before and again after? The 308 Military chamber is generous after that there are methods and techniques. I use a no-name lube, for most work any case lube will do but there are exceptions. And I have forming dies. I have a 308 W forming die, the 308 W forming die forms 30/06 cases to 308 W with ease; after forming it is necessary to size the case to 308 W in a full length sizing die. Nothing works better than new cases when forming, after that comes once fired, the worst cases to form are cases that have been fired in ugly chambers. No one measures before and again after. If I am going to shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head I want to know by how much. If I am going to reduce the diameter of the case I want to know by how much. And I have to have a press that has the ability to overcome the case's ability to resist sizing.
And then there are the other factors, one is pressure. A case that is hammered with high pressure is more difficult to sized than a case fired with normal pressure.
I purchased a new Winchester Model 70 300 Winchester Mag rifle, it had the ugliest chamber I have ever seen. I have small base dies, I have forming dies for the 300 Win Mag, I have BAR RCBS 300 Win Mag dies etc. etc. I contacted Winchester, I wanted a chamber that matched my dies or a Winchester die that matched their chamber. Long story, they sent the rifle back in a new box. I dug it out after they returned it 15 +/- a few years ago, I loaded 100 rounds and then changed my mind about going to the range and gave the 100 rounds to my son, he has my other 300 Win Mag. It shoots one hole groups, it is not a Winchester.
F. Guffey
I always make sure wife is gone when I borrow her stuff for reloading
I was building and repairing scales when she noticed one beam that (according to her) required cleaning. My fault, I was not listening, she took off with the beam and came back after cleaning it. I do not know what she used but the beam came back with out a number or mark, the beam was white. As always I called RCBS and told on her, not recommended, anyhow they would not send me stickers for replacement and if I sent it to them they had the option to repair and or replace and I did not want to exchange a 10-10 for an import.
The next gun show I attended I found two beams for $5.00 each and though I was ahead because shipping to RCBS would be at least $5.00.
F. Guffey
Darreld Walton
12-06-2016, 06:08
I used a LOT of LC brass that I watched go through an M60 at the range, while stationed at Malmstrom AFB back in the early 70's. Reamed the primer pockets, and trimmed with a Wilson trimmer, sized it with a set of RCBS small base dies so I could use the stuff in my early Browning BLR. Don't recall that I ever had a single case failure of any sort with that brass.
bigedp51
12-07-2016, 08:37
The machine gun chamber can be .002 to .004 larger in diameter than a SAAMI chamber. When I buy once fired 7.62 brass I size it once in a standard die full length .308 die and the check it with a JP Enterprises 308 / 7.62x51 Case Gauge
"7.62 NATO/.308 Win. This gauge is cut with a 7.62 NATO chamber finishing reamer, and will give a reliable check of ammunition used in rifles chambered for either 7.62 NATO or most rifles chambered in .308 Winchester SAAMI"
If it doesn't fit in the gauge meaning case diameter the case is then sized in a small base die.
The last batch I bought I sized them all twice using a standard die followed by the small base die. Your dealing with brass spring back and a SAAMI chamber or a military chamber .002 larger in diameter. Meaning the choice of die will depend on chamber diameter.
[QUOTE=bigedp51;480328]The machine gun chamber can be .002 to .004 larger in diameter than a SAAMI chamber. When I buy once fired 7.62 brass I size it once in a standard die full length .308 die and the check it with a JP Enterprises 308 / 7.62x51 Case Gauge
I am not convinced another tool is necessary, I make chamber gages; nothing fancy, I also use take off barrels. Most chamber gages are rip-offs of the Wilson case gage; most chamber gages do not use case head protrusion. And then there is before a reloaders starts sizing; reloaders should start by measuring the case first.
F. Guffey
bigedp51
12-15-2016, 05:30
It isn't the cartridge headspace length or base to shoulder measurement thats the problem. Military Lake City 7.62 brass is thicker and harder than comertial .308 cases and is harder to reduce in diameter when fired in a machine gun chamber that is .003 to ,004 larger in diameter.
Below I use JP Enterprise 5.56 and 7.62 case gauges because they also check case diameter for my final "plop" test in checking the cases. A Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge is used to check a fired case and then set the resizing die up for .003 to .004 shoulder bump. Wilson and Dillon case gauges do not check case diameter and fired machine gun brass will not drop into these type gauges.
Machine gun 7.62 brass is average quality and has more than normal case neck thickness variations compared to Remchester brass. Meaning LC brass would be OK for blasting ammo but would require a lot more sorting and prep work to bring it up to speed for anything else.
JP Enterprises 308 / 7.62x51 Case Gauge
7.62 NATO/.308 Win. This gauge is cut with a 7.62 NATO chamber finishing reamer, and will give a reliable check of ammunition used in rifles chambered for either 7.62 NATO or most rifles chambered in .308 Winchester SAAMI.
http://www.evergladesammo.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/3/0/308_case_gauge.jpg
Below is the best once fired brass you can get, "IF" you can find it in stock.
.308/7.62 - LC Long Range - Cleaned - 500 Pieces
http://brassbombers.com/308-762-LC-Long-Range-Cleaned-500-Pieces-7LR-C0050.htm
Once Fired .308/7.62 LC Long Range
These are once fired Lake City Long Range .308/7.62 NATO Military brass casings. These casings have been cleaned only. No other processing or loading has been done. These casings are bolt fired and only consist of Lake City Long Range headstamps.
P.S. F.Guffey we do not need anymore "War and Peace" length postings about measuring cases from base to shoulder that no one gives a rats ass about. Go back to Accurate Shooter and bore them to death.
Ed. Not true, all of this has to do with the skill lever of the reloader. If a reloader can not use a Wilson case gage to measure case diameter by all means purchased another tool; that would be the only one your a peddling. As I have said before, there is a lot about sizing a case the reloader does not understand. From the beginning I though reloaders/smiths and machinist could make a tool in less time than it takes to order one, I believe they spend more time trying to convince me they can't than it would take if they spent more time thinking about it.
Yes I remind reloaders I make datums, I purchase datums and on occasions I collect datums. Then there is the rational, I said I was at a gun show looking through boxes of junk on a dealers table; I said "DATUMAS!": The dealer said he did not have any datums, the reloader in front of me ask "WHERE?" Another reloader said he did not see any datums and another ask me what a datum looked like. And you are using a gage to flop a case into?
F. Guffey
Reloaders are under the impression they can move a shoulder on a case, they even bundle it with the word bump, in all honesty I said I can not move the shoulder of a case back with a die that has case body support. And I ask: "How do you do that?". Reloaders have mastered the .002" bump? And that is it, there is nothing less and there is nothing more. I size cases for short chamber, I size cases for long chambers. For short chambers I form/sizes cases that are .012" shorter than a minimum length case from the shoulder to the case head. For long chambers I have added .016" length to the case between the shoulder of the case to the case head. I know that is not cool because I can not bump the shoulder back and I can not find a reloader that can explain how they do it; they make claims.
F. Guffey
bigedp51
12-16-2016, 10:32
If any of the sane reloaders here haven't noticed F.Guffey is the only person in the world who knows how to resize a cartridge case.
There are 7,432,663,275 people on this planet and only F. Guffey knows how to resize a case................unbelievable!
I think F.Guffey "bumped" his head too many times and is suffering cognitive problems.
There are 7,432,663,275 people on this planet and only F. Guffey knows how to resize a case................unbelievable!
.
Unbelievable? I am told by reloaders they bump the shoulder on the case back and I ask; "HOW?" "How do you do that?" I am not asking them to demonstrate to me how silly they can get. I have even asked them If it is just a simple matter of not knowing. Not knowing is OK; A smith built a few magnificent rifles, he went to the range to fire form cases. He had 5 case head separations out of the first 10 cases he fired. I suggested he call me the next time, I told him I could have determined that could happen before he left his shop; I also told him I could have met him at the range and fixed the problem at the range long enough for fire forming. Anyhow, he was told all you 'gotta-do' is move the shoulder forward when you do this and that and I explained to him that is impossible, but first a reloader/smith must understand what happens when the trigger strikes the primer.
I explained to him I form first then fire.
F. Guffey
bigedp51
12-16-2016, 11:06
Anyone have experience with fired LC 7.62 brass? I have heard this is usually out of MG and is pain to size, needs trimming and sometimes the base is expanded a lot. Correct?
The biggest problem with machine gun brass is brass spring back after sizing. Meaning these cases were fired formed in a larger diameter chamber and might need to be sized with a small base die. "BUT" remember a standard .308 resizing die is already at least .002 smaller in diameter than the machine gun chamber. So just pausing at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds helps prevent brass spring back and a small base die may not be needed.
So yes this MG brass can be harder to size down because it expanded more in the MG chamber. And the base of the 7.62 case is thicker and harder than commercial .308 cases, and thus harder to size.
Most machine guns have quick change barrels and the case head separations shown earlier can be caused by the generous chamber dimensions.
I use a RCBS case mastering gauge to inspect cases, that allows me to check case wall thickness and look for case thinning and stretching in the base web area.
bigedp51
12-16-2016, 11:18
Unbelievable? I am told by reloaders they bump the shoulder on the case back and I ask; "HOW?" "How do you do that?" I am not asking them to demonstrate to me how silly they can get. I have even asked them If it is just a simple matter of not knowing. Not knowing is OK; A smith built a few magnificent rifles, he went to the range to fire form cases. He had 5 case head separations out of the first 10 cases he fired. I suggested he call me the next time, I told him I could have determined that could happen before he left his shop; I also told him I could have met him at the range and fixed the problem at the range long enough for fire forming. Anyhow, he was told all you 'gotta-do' is move the shoulder forward when you do this and that and I explained to him that is impossible, but first a reloader/smith must understand what happens when the trigger strikes the primer.
I explained to him I form first then fire.
F. Guffey
What the hell does this have to do with sizing machine gun brass, all you posts all over the Internet are the same thing, only F.Guffey knows how to resize a case..............Unbelievable.
Go back to http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ and look at all the jokes and comments made about your postings by competitive shooters.
You trash every posting you are in with your never ending garbage with your datums, magic feeler gauges and your imaginary Superman ability to jump tall reloading presses in a single bound.
Unbelievable!
I used a LOT of LC brass that I watched go through an M60 at the range, while stationed at Malmstrom AFB back in the early 70's. Reamed the primer pockets, and trimmed with a Wilson trimmer, sized it with a set of RCBS small base dies so I could use the stuff in my early Browning BLR. Don't recall that I ever had a single case failure of any sort with that brass.
Darreld Walton, Nor have I have experienced problems with LC brass that has been fired in a machine gun. I am the fan of measuring before sizing and again after sizing. And then there is measuring the diameter of the case before firing, after firing and again after sizing. I have never been a fan of sizing a case three time between firing and full length sizing, in my opinion that would be too much work on the case.
If I am going to work that hard I will form 30/06 cases to 308 W. There is an advantage to using 30/06 cases. There are 308 W chambers that are generous. When tightening the case neck in the chamber it is not possible to make the 308 W case neck thicker, again when that happens I use 30/06 cases.
F. Guffey
Ed, if you do not know just say you do not know. This is a reloading forum, I can not believe reloaders do not know what happens when the case is sized. Can you move the shoulder when you size a case. And if you are happy why are you so angry?
F. Guffey
bigedp51
12-16-2016, 01:31
Ed, if you do not know just say you do not know. This is a reloading forum, I can not believe reloaders do not know what happens when the case is sized. Can you move the shoulder when you size a case. And if you are happy why are you so angry?
F. Guffey
F.Guffey get this through your thick head, when people see one of your postings they grown. All your postings are you slapping yourself on the back and assuming that "YOU" are the only one who knows how to resize a cartridge case.
Its simple, you "BUMP" the shoulder back a few thousandths shorter than your chamber using a gauge like the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.
Below my hand, my gauge and my fired case being measured.
http://i.imgur.com/OJqNmQH.jpg
And below your dies are adjustable up and down to get the proper shoulder bump or shoulder set back.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/shouldersetback_zpsjizx9lok.gif
So what makes you think out of over 7 billion people on this earth you are the only one who knows how to resize a cartridge case...............Unbelievable!
On top of this at AccurateShooter.com "YOU" F. Guffey were making fun of this website and said it was dead. So what are you doing in a dead website when you could go Accurate Shooter or Benchrest Central and spread all your BS among the people laughing at you with every post you make.F.Guffey I know the size of my chamber and the size of my resized cases, and you are a complete idiot.
Below are your antics in a posting the OP was pushing the shoulder back too far even with Redding competition shell holders. (.005 too much even with the +.010 shell holder) And it degenerates into you F.Guffey trashing the posting with your insane garbage rants.
Redding competition shellholder
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/redding-competition-shellholder.3914713/
JOHN COOK
12-17-2016, 06:03
bigedp51 ...........
Thanks for your post. I am glad that someone who has the vocabulary and ability to express their sentiments (and mine) concerning the BS that is posted in here sometimes. Thank you, Thank you ... and Merry Christmas from Dixie..:1948:
I have an extra FEELER GAUGE if you need one !!!!!!!!! LOL not at you..........
john
And Ed, that is Ok, growning could be healthy, growning could be a sign of ignorance; those that are gowning simply do not know. I understand your frustration with datums. When I signed onto this reloading forum the total amount of working knowledge about the datum could be summed up by saying it was a line and its location was found with an arrow pointing at it. The line was identified as 'the datum line'; and that was it.
I was at a gun show; there were 5 gun enthuses at one table, 1 dealer and 4 shoppers; only 1 of the shoppers knew what a datum was, what it looked like and how to use it. When I am on a gun forum nothing changes; except when gun enthuses are on the Internet they become socially dysfunctional.
Again, I will assume you do not know what happens when a case is sized and there is no one on this forum that has enough shop skills or investigative skills to determine if it is possible to move the shoulder back with a sizing die. Again: I can not move the shoulder on a case back with a die that has case body support.
I disagree with you, that is a luxury I afford myself. Tying to sell a reloader something he does not need is OK. There are ways to measure the diameter of a case that does not involve purchasing your favorite tool. Starting over, you say this tool is a flop tool, after using it you do not know the diameter of the case; for years manufacturers of 'other tools' referred to the Wilson Case Gage as a 'drop in tool'. Then went on to describe their digital type head space gages as a head gage and reloaders did not know the difference between a comparator and a head space gage.. Case gages are not head space gages because the case does not have head space and the Wilson case gage is a datum based gage (back to the part about the 4 shoppers at the dealer's table).
A reloader with basic shop skills can measure the diameter of the case body with a Wilson case gage; problem, reloaders are impressionable and can be intimidated. The Wilson case gage is not a drop in gage, it never was. The Hornady tool is not a head space gage, it is a comparator.
F. Guffey
bigedp51
12-17-2016, 09:33
F.Guffey
Below is my Colt 5.56 field gauge 1.4736
http://i.imgur.com/F81aB6g.jpg
Below is my "calibrated" Hornady cartidge case headspace gauge reading my field gauge. (1,4735) it only reads to the nearest .0005
http://i.imgur.com/kkoU6og.jpg
Below is my Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge reading a fired case from my AR15 carbine and reading the chamber headspace minus brass spring back.
http://i.imgur.com/OJqNmQH.jpg
I'm not going to argue semantics with someone who never answers any posters questions and just pats himself on the back in forums.
And you are the same person who thinks he is the only one in the world of over 7 billion people that knows how to resize a cartridge case. Unfreakinbelievable!
http://i.imgur.com/hrBFwaJ.jpg
Ed, if you do not know just say you do not know. This is a reloading forum, I can not believe reloaders do not know what happens when the case is sized.
F. Guffey
http://i.imgur.com/W6o4Sqo.jpg
P.S. They sent me a PM from Accurateshooter.com and asked me to keep you tied up here in this forum so you wont screw up their forum. :icon_lol:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.