R F Sedgley [Archive] - Jouster2 Shooting Forums

cplnorton

11-06-2016, 04:13

Are you looking for the commercial side of it? I have some to do with the Marines from the National Archives.

But I know I've looking around Philly at the regional archive locations hoping to find other factory records and haven't seen anything yet.

clintonhater

11-06-2016, 07:20

Looking through my 1942 volume of the Rifleman a few days ago, I was surprised to see a large Sedgley ad for '03s aimed at sales to private defense-plants. (Seems to me a 12 gauge would be more useful in that application.) Since the ad boasted that the guns had been proof tested with an 80,000 lb. load, I assume they were low-numbers that had been rejected by the Ordnance Dept.

AlanD

12-26-2016, 08:06

My interest in R F Sedgley is due to two orders that were place with R F Sedgley for Springfield rifles, through the British Purchasing Commission.

One order was for 500 rifles, these went to Fiji the second order was for 780 rifles which may have gone to Malaya or the UK. Both orders were place before October 15th 1940 and had been delivered and inspected by March 31st 1941. I would not be supprised if the rifles supplied to Fiji were still there, I dread to think what condition they would be in. Does anyone have any knowlage of this?

I would assume that these rifles would be low serial number rifles if Sedgley had them? Is this correct.

I am hoping against hope that the records for R F Sedgley still exist as it would be nice to record the serial numbers of the rifles that were supplied. However as the company was involved in supplying special equipment to the OSS I would have thought that an OSS researcher would have tracked them down, then again perhaps you have to be a pedant to do this!

All comments welcome.

Regards and Seasons Greetings

Alan David
Sydney
Australia

cplnorton

12-27-2016, 03:34

That is very interesting Alan. To be honest that is the very first time I've heard of Sedgley selling rifles overseas. So that is intriguing.

I've been looking for the Sedgley factory records for many years, and never found them. I've searched all around Philly there, figuring if they still existed they would have been donated to a library, or college. Or even to the Philly Archive location there. But I have never found any mention or even a lead of where to look next. So it might be possible those documents do not exist anymore. But I don't know for sure. If they were found, I would be very excited as well.

I would suspect the 1903's would be low numbers. The Marines did have at least one auction, selling off low number receivers, and I see mention of SA doing the same with low number receivers. Someone like Sedgley probalby would have been in there making bids.

I've seen a document location for sales to Bannerman, but never seen anything associated with Sedgley as far as how much stuff was actually sold to them.

I wish I could help more. And someday ifyou do encounter the location of the Sedgley documents, pleast let me know. And if someday I ever get that lucky to find them, I will extend the favor to you as well. :)

dave

12-27-2016, 09:30

I own two Sedgley sporters, one a low number but the other is a hi-number. So they did have/use some hi-numbers.

cplnorton

12-27-2016, 09:45

I own two Sedgley sporters, one a low number but the other is a hi-number. So they did have/use some hi-numbers.

Dave,

No kidding on a high number? That is interesting.

Just out of extreme morbid curiosity, would you mind posting just the starts of the serial ranges of them? I will post if there were any Marine serials around it. You don't have to post the whole serial but just like the first 3 or 4 digits. I'm just curious if Sedgley did get receivers from the Marines, or someone else.

I'm mostly just wondering how they fall among other known Marine serial numbers.

The Marines did have high numbers failing the rockwell hardness test the same way the low numbers did in the middle to late 30's. So maybe that mgiht be an explanation?

I honestly dont' know, but it's sort of interesting to try to piece together the puzzle of it. :)

AlanD

01-01-2017, 10:37

cplnorton. I will certainty let you know if I come across any information regarding records for R F Sedgley.
I am not sure if the ATF would hold any records relating Sedgley? As they went out of business in the 1950's I would not have thought there would be any requirement for the records to be kept or deposited with the ATF.
A few years ago I did contact the ATF with a request to look at the records they hold for the defunct Harrington & Richardson, but this was denied. the late Bill Goforth who wrote the book on Ivor Johnson told me he knocked back as well. Charles Pate did gain access to the H&R records however.

In the meantime I have contacted the Fiji High Commission in Sydney and asked if the Fiji government have any records regarding shipments of rifles to Fiji in the War. It would be great if they turn up a list of serial numbers for the 500 rifles. A long shot I know, but you never know your luck!

Regards

Alan David
Sydney

cplnorton

01-02-2017, 06:16

Alan,

Thank you sir! Yeah it seems once a company folds, it's just by some lucky chance that the records don't end up in the trash.

I sure hope they do exist somewhere though. But I will keep a lookout and if I do see any clues, I will coordinate with you.

dave

01-02-2017, 09:30

Rifle, #3 down, carbine #4 down.

39191Sedgley Serial number of a Mann. Carbine, 1903 action. # 842,988. Now I must modify my statement, while this rifle is marked with Sedgley's name I think it was put together by Paul Yeager, who I have been told, purchased Sedgley's inventory when that company went out of business. Every thing on the rifle is Sedgley except the stock, which is just not Sedgley's style. The barrel has the Sedgley name but turned 90 degree so it is on the bottom, also stamp Cal. 30 near rec. The receiver markings have not been changed in any way. So there is a possibility Yeager got the receiver from a source other then Sedgley's inventory.
The low number rifle I have was polished and top knurled over, this one is a pure Sedgley rifle. # 988 renumbered in tang groove, bolt also numbered 988. So Sedgley covered up the low numbers and renumbered the rifles, at least in some cases.
The similarity of both serial numbers is correct, not a mistake!

clintonhater

01-02-2017, 01:15

I own two Sedgley sporters, one a low number but the other is a hi-number. So they did have/use some hi-numbers.

Original markings on one I had were ground off and the receiver ring matted; beautiful job, but perhaps done to conceal low number?

cplnorton

01-02-2017, 01:38

Dave,

Thank you for posting the serial. Below is just the range from around it. There is a mix, but still a lot of Marine rifles.

842689 010538USMC - SAN DIEGO
842717 050531USMC
842807 080432RARITAN ARS TO GOVS ISLAND
842816 010433NY STATE ARS TO 107TH INF NYNG
842818 102830USMC
842833 120936U OF KENTUCKY
842833 033137RECOVERED
843052 032632USMC
843103 021633USMC - HAITI (SURVEY)
843105 050433NY STATE ARS GOVS ISLAND
843191 121731USMC
843265 111836USMC

John Beard

01-02-2017, 04:26

AlanD

Seasons' Greetings!

You may recall that we corresponded four years ago about Kiwi Remingtons. You send me two scans from a book of Kiwi rifle purchases. I send you a data base of Kiwi Remington registration numbers. I have since expanded that data base to 74 entries. The data base is very interesting. Thanks for encouraging me to compile it!

Happy New Year!

J.B.

AlanD

01-14-2017, 02:29

Hello John, Seasons Greetings!

I do remember are communications - 4 years, how time fly's.

I will be following up again with the Fiji Consulate here in Sydney once the holiday period is over, they have at least acknowledged my initial inquiry.

In the meantime I got a reprint of the R F Sedgley catalogue for 1940, from Abby at Corenell Publications. It makes really interesting reading.

Someone should do a book or lengthy magazine article on the history of R F Sedgley.

Regards

Alan David
Sydney
Australia

CPC

01-18-2017, 02:07

John Beard

01-18-2017, 03:17

I doubt it has anything to do with a USMC rifle but since we are talking Sedgley, I have one that is supposed to be an old DCM gun. I bought an 03 and a Garand from the same guy and he said they were both DCM guns, the garand came with paperwork this rifle did not. 800468 with a Sedgley 9-44 barrel. I've heard stories about the late barrels but it is a nice rifle so I kept it.

Your rifle's Sedgley 9-44 dated barrel was delivered on a contract from the U.S. Army Ordnance Dept. Sedgley still had barrel tooling left over from their USMC contracts.

J.B.

relics6165

01-18-2017, 09:25

"Someone should do a book or lengthy magazine article on the history of R F Sedgley."

AlanD:

Michael Petrov devoted one chapter of Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century (Volume 1) to RF Sedgley. That chapter would also have been published as a magazine article in Precision Shooting, both now out of print or out of business.

HTH

PhillipM

01-18-2017, 10:17

I know it's not germane to the topic, but I have a commercial 03 Sedgley barrel. Circle S and 3006 marked.

AlanD

01-19-2017, 02:06

relics6165. Do you know which issue of Precision Shooter the article on Sedgley appeared in, as I would like to get a copy?

cplnorton. I have had no luck with Sedgley records. However, an archive in Phily has got the following Philadelphia Evening Bulletin articles about Sedgley. The archive has offered to photo copy them and send them to me, but its a bit to far away from my mission of British Military Secondary Issue Small Arms, so if you want them, send me an e-mail through this site -click on my name on a post above - and I will forward the details to you. Here is the list of eight articles.

April 6, 1929 "Robber Scare in Arms Plant"
February 20, 1936 "Says Phila. Firm Got Machine Guns"
September 9, 1940 "Sedgley Plans Expansion"
September 20, 1944 "Local Firm Producing New Flamethrower"
November 16, 1944 "2 Missing Shells Found by Boys"
November 17, 1944 "Search Continued for 3D Rocket Shell"
January 25, 1945 "Receiver is Asked for Sedgley Firm"
March 8, 1945 "Judge Dismisses Sedgley Suit"

Regards

AlanD

cplnorton

01-19-2017, 07:29

AlanD,

That would be awesome. Thank you so much sir. I will send you a PM.

clintonhater

01-19-2017, 07:58

...an archive in Phily has got the following Philadelphia Evening Bulletin articles about Sedgley.AlanD

Which archive has these papers, and do you know if they have issues between about 1900 and 1919? I assume they are not available online, or it wouldn't be necessary to resort to the antiquated process of photocopying. (Though I remember WELL when a Zerox machine was the very pinnacle of modern technology!) I've found that very few Philly papers are available online, which reinforces my negative opinion of that backward city.

cplnorton

01-19-2017, 08:43

Which archive has these papers, and do you know if they have issues between about 1900 and 1919? I assume they are not available online, or it wouldn't be necessary to resort to the antiquated process of photocopying. (Though I remember WELL when a Zerox machine was the very pinnacle of modern technology!) I've found that very few Philly papers are available online, which reinforces my negative opinion of that backward city.

Clarence, I'm pretty sure I know where these are located. I will send you their contact info. Unforunatley no, most of this stuff isn't available online. But I can tell you about how to have them pull it. I will send you a email sir.

relics6165

01-19-2017, 03:41

relics6165. Do you know which issue of Precision Shooter the article on Sedgley appeared in, as I would like to get a copy?

Regards

AlanD

AlanD:

Michasl Petrov's Sedgley article was in the June 1999 issue of Precision Shooting and was titled R.F. Sedgley. It was mostly about Sedgley's forays into the semi custom 1903 Springfields (his rifles were often referred to as poor man's Griffin and Howe)and other custom rifles, not a lot on the military side as I recall. What was military was mostly US.

HTH