Rear sight ladder differences?

[M1Garandy]

Out of curiosity, what is the difference between these two sight leafs?

Leaf 1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Original-M1898-1899-1902-Springfield-Krag-Rear-Sight-Ladder-Stripped-K-2B-/201520109715?hash=item2eeb88d893:g:YDoAAOSw~OVWuNF v

Leaf 2: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Original-Model-1903-Springfield-Krag-Rear-Sight-Ladder-Stripped-K-77A-/201520140048?hash=item2eeb894f10:g:L5QAAOSwPc9WuOb B#viTabs_0

They both appear to be numbered to 20. Is the distance between graduations different or is it something else I'm overlooking?

Since this is Joe DeChristophers old inventory, I presume there is a difference or the seller would not list them separately.

Just curious.

Thanks.

[madsenshooter]

Since there's no magnifier on those auctions you can't see the edge. The 03 leaf will have a fine crosshatch pattern for finer adjustments. They were actually made from 1898 leafs, so other than the additional machining on the side, no difference. Oh, the slider had a part in it that rides in the center notch you can see in his pics of the leaf. The original 98 leaf didn't have that, and no vertical slots to catch the slider. There's two or three sizes of the vertical slots that have been used. With the finer ones, it becomes hard to feel the movement of one slot. Scroll down in this post to see some of the differences in leafs, from the side. http://www.kragcollectorsassociation.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1480345389

[M1Garandy]

Ok, I think I follow you.

I have what I think is a M1902 sight missing the flip up peep (screw hole is there) that bubba modified the leaf with a file near the front. I'd like to replace the leaf with a functional replacement sans bubba modification. My current leaf has the long groove for the elevation slide plunger, vertical grooves on the left side and is not marked on top with fine graduations and the elevation slide has the corresponding teeth to engage the notches in the slide.

So I'd potentially need the leaf in the first link, but only if it has the long groove and vertical notches to match my current elevation slide?

I can't see any of the pics on the KCA forum unfortunately.

[butlersrangers]

'M1Garandy' - Attached are photos of different rear sight leaves showing evolution from 1898 to 1903. Also, a picture of a 1902 sight, with fine side-notches, taken apart. (I can't recall if 1902 slides are specific for fine and course notch leaf or universal).

photo #1: Smooth 1898 leaf, fine & course 1902 leaves, 'cross-hatching' of 1903 leaf.

photo #2: 1902 Sight disassembled.

3883538836

(p.s. - You can get the "Sgt. Peep" plate and its screw for the 1902 sight from S&S Firearms, Glendale, N.Y. Their catalog is viewable online).

[Kragrifle]

1902 sights are always available on EBay.

[M1Garandy]

Thanks. My leaf looks like the second one down. I took my sight apart last night without any issues, and thankfully only the leaf had issues.

I don't have a use for this sight, but I'd still like to fix it just the same.

[butlersrangers]

'M1Garandy' - It sounds like your 1902 sight would be a good 'Donor' to someone needing the good parts, or You just gotta get a Krag!

FWIW - William S. Brophy, in his book, "The Krag Rifle", said the serrations on the 1902 leaf had ".... matching serrations on a slide shoe .... ". So maybe, the inside machining of the slide is specific to the way the leaf is notched. (I don't rightly know. I will have to pay more attention in the future, when I take 1902 sights apart.

Brophy also reported, the leaf, (you originally asked about) with the 25 yard increments, saw use on a "Fifth type" of 1902 sight: "This type of sight appears to be a combination of parts of different vintages and models of rifles".

IMHO - Around 1907-1908, Krags were largely replaced by 1903 Springfields for U. S. Army, Navy, and National Guard units. A lot of Krags were in storage or even in the hands of Schools. During WW1 preparation and training, Krags again became useful and were used into the 1920s. Surplus sight parts (knobs, slides and leaves) were likely used to repair damaged Krags.

Today, we see combinations of parts on '1902' Krag sights. In my opinion, these could have been put together or repaired by the U. S. Armory, arsenals, Service or NG armorers, Bannerman, Sedgley, W. Stokes Kirk, any gunsmith or hobbyist. Some sight parts 'interchange' and 'loose' sights are probably always most suspect.

(Photo from Kemper [Mo.] Military School, circa 1907. Note - There are four broken off knobs on the five visible 1902 rear sights):

38840

[M1Garandy]

I'll likely get one sooner or later.

I don't like letting broken parts linger so I'm waiting for a reply from movieman630 to see if he has a leaf in the configuration I need.

[Kragrifle]

He has lots of rare parts but is usually high on prices.

[M1Garandy]

That is true, but $10 shipped doesn't seem excessive if he has a M1902 leaf in the configuration I need.

ETA: I was able to blow up the picture of the M1902 sight leaf on www.granpasgunprts.com (same picture he uses on eBay) and it is what I need so one is now on the way.

[M1Garandy]

Parts have arrived and the sight is back together works just fine.