Did Springfield Armory (IL) ever import or sell Enfield rifles?

[M1Garandy]

Saw a Savage No4 Mk1* today that had Springfield Armory stamped on the left side of the butt socket.

Did they ever sell or import Enfield rifles back in the day?

The left side of the receiver ring was marked BDF as well. Did not appear to be factory but was much older than the SA stamping.

Just curious.

[Merc]

A photo would help.

[M1Garandy]

Not my rifle, did not have a camera at the time I observed it. The rifle in question is about sixty miles away unfortunately.

This was the only thing I could turn up online: http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=112675.0 and it wasn't much help.

[JB White]

Things which ran through my mind:

If it was/is an import marking then it was done post 1986 and the SA address should have been included along with the country of origin. At least in an abbreviated form.
SA wasn't in business prior to the '68 ban on surplus imports.
Did/does SA have a collection and is/was it a property marking?

Thought about the original Springfield Armory being solicited for contract manufacture during WW2 and this might have been a sample sent for evaluation. The government didn't allow Winchester, Remington, or High Standard accept the offers due to recent memories of the Pattern 14/US M1917 debacle just a couple decades earlier.
The rifle being a MkI* debunks that approach as it's too late.

Did Savage send a rifle for study at SA for the sake of opinions on other manufacturing shortcuts? Is the stamping counterfeit intended to raise confusing conversations?
More questions without answers.

Does the rifle belong to someone you know, or was it just seen in passing?

[Sunray]

"...had Springfield Armory stamped on..." As in "Springfield Armory"?
Springfield Armory the U.S. government's arsenal did not sell or import anything for civilians. SA Inc. is Springfield Armory in name only and didn't exist until 1974. No Lee-Enfields made by them. No bolt actions at all mentioned on their company history page.
Savage made No. 4's were made under contract to the Brits before(Not by much though.) there was such a thing as FDR's Lend/Lease Act. When the contract ended(1944), all remaining rifles, parts, machinery and tooling was packed up and sent to Canadian Arsenals-Longbranch Plant in what is now Mississauga, Ont.(big bedroom community west of Toronto. Across a creek west. Grew up about 5 miles from the where the plant was. Been in the old building that's just a concrete pad now.) and subsequently issued to CF units. Had one on my MIU, long ago.
I'd guess it was stamped by somebody who bought one of the stamps. Mind you, it may have gone through SA on its way to either Long Branch or England. Not likely though.

[M1Garandy]

Things which ran through my mind:

If it was/is an import marking then it was done post 1986 and the SA address should have been included along with the country of origin. At least in an abbreviated form.
SA wasn't in business prior to the '68 ban on surplus imports.
Did/does SA have a collection and is/was it a property marking?

Thought about the original Springfield Armory being solicited for contract manufacture during WW2 and this might have been a sample sent for evaluation. The government didn't allow Winchester, Remington, or High Standard accept the offers due to recent memories of the Pattern 14/US M1917 debacle just a couple decades earlier.
The rifle being a MkI* debunks that approach as it's too late.

Did Savage send a rifle for study at SA for the sake of opinions on other manufacturing shortcuts? Is the stamping counterfeit intended to raise confusing conversations?
More questions without answers.

Does the rifle belong to someone you know, or was it just seen in passing?

Seen in passing. I might, might be able to get pictures as I have a buddy that passes that way semi-regularly.

I kind of doubt this anything to with the real Springfield Armory in Mass. The stamping had been applied much more recently than the other markings I briefly observed on the rifle in question. I guess I should have paid more attention when I was looking at this rifle but I didn't think my observation would generate more questions than answers.

[M1Garandy]

"...had Springfield Armory stamped on..." As in "Springfield Armory"?

I think it is much more likely to be SA Inc, that is why I put (IL) in my thread title. But who knows?

[Tuna]

I would not be surprised to see it is one of the ultra rare US Springfield approved for use by the US government during WW2 at special armament plants by guards.

Fake Springfield stamps are everywhere and dealers will stamp them on anything and will say anything they think will help them part money from the public as they walk by their tables at gun shows. Years ago I saw an Arisaka stamped as such at a gun show in Connecticut. Dealer was saying it was an early capture taken to Springfield Armory for testing. People will do and say anything to make a buck if they can.

[JB White]

M1Garandy, from the link you provided I browsed a bit further. Nothing of any interest except for another turned out being a Long Branch. Dead end but for the fact two have surfaced with questionable pedigrees.

For now I'm standing with Tuna. A collector might pay for a disfigured rifle, but nobody is paying for any story. Nobody but the gullible.

If they are paying big, then I'm stamping US PROPERTY along with a fake ordnance bomb on anything I choose to part with...including muzzle loaders! ;)

[M1Garandy]

JB, I'd agree with both you and Tuna if the seller was playing up the SA angle, but as best I can recall, this rifle was being sold by the shop that had it as a bog standard No4 Mk1* with no premium for or mention of the SA marking.

Not to say it wasn't stamped to fool people at some point.

I'll post back if I can get some pictures.

[M1Garandy]

Looks like it is an import mark. Springfield Armory on the butt socket and Geneseo IL on the barrel. I'm finding that the BDF stamping may be for the Belize Defense Force. Simpson LTD sold a BDF marked Enfield that they said was imported by SA Inc, but the link is dead.


391353913639137

[Merc]

Looks official, doesn't it?

[WHG]

Could it have been refurbished in India? I know my ishapore Enfields have a SA stamped on the buttstock.

[JB White]

Could it have been refurbished in India? I know my ishapore Enfields have a SA stamped on the buttstock.

Different marking. The above rifle has Springfield Armory stamped in full, so we know it isn't India in this case.
Your Ishapores likely have the SIA/ISA type marking where the I is capped with an arrow. The 'I' is often lost in the confusion as it is mistaken for part of the arrow. Due to the layout of the marking it is often called Small Arms Inspectorate or Inspectorate, Small Arms. Take a closer look at yours and tell us what you see :)

[Hal O'Peridol]

Probably stamped SPNG SP or something close for Springfield Sporters.

[JB White]

I don't think so in this case. Are the pics coming up for you? Just as said in the opening post the markings are spelled out entirely on the buttsocket and barrel.
Can't see the rest of the rifle and the serial # is blocked out, but I suspect it's a Savage.

[M1Garandy]

It was a Savage No4 Mk1*.

[Tuna]

I for one did not know Springfield Armory imported any firearms. As to the Belize connection I can see where that makes sense having been part of the Commonwealth for so long before becoming independent.

[lyman]

I for one did not know Springfield Armory imported any firearms. As to the Belize connection I can see where that makes sense having been part of the Commonwealth for so long before becoming independent.


they imported some receivers/rifles and possibly frames for some of the firearms they sold over the years including the SAR48/4800

[madsenshooter]

Maybe it's one of the rare Devine, TX put together Enfields! I let one of their M1As get away from me once! Oops, posted this joke from page 1, without seeing the actual mark, sorry guys.

[Tanker Don]

I've been searching for info on a rifle like this for a long time. I bought one back in the early 90's. Marked mostly the same way except my "Springfield Armory" stamp is below the British B proof instead of above as shown in the OP's pics. What I'd really like to know is where the B D F stamp is from. Probably a story without an answer, but at least now I know my rifle is not a one-off so I'll keep digging for info.

[lyman]

to expand on my post from a few years ago,

Springfield Armory, the commercial firm, not the US Gov't version, imported a lot of it's firearms,
either in completed or partially completed form


the 1911's were on South American Frames for a good bit,
the SAR 48/4800 (FAL) were Argentine IIRC,

and of course the XD's are made in Croatia,


surely they had access to some South or Latin American surplus years ago,


if I get a chance (as in remember) I 'll look thru the updated the Broad Arrow and see if BDF is in it

[Hal O'Peridol]

to expand on my post from a few years ago,

Springfield Armory, the commercial firm, not the US Gov't version, imported a lot of it's firearms,
either in completed or partially completed form


the 1911's were on South American Frames for a good bit,
the SAR 48/4800 (FAL) were Argentine IIRC,

and of course the XD's are made in Croatia,


surely they had access to some South or Latin American surplus years ago,


if I get a chance (as in remember) I 'll look thru the updated the Broad Arrow and see if BDF is in it

Lyman, the FALs (SAR-48 and SAR-4800) were sorced out of Brazil. I remember Reese Surplus back in the 1980s selling M1911A1 slides with Colt markings on one side and Brazilian markings on the other. Mase a couple pistols out of those.

Back in 1986 I was PCS'ing to Defense Language Institute. While driving through Illinois I visited Springfield Armory, Simpson's and Reese surplus. Piles of the stuff, and cheap. But then again E-5 pay was not a lot.

[lyman]

thanks for the clarification,
I was confusing FM with Imbel,