1903 A4 Sniper. New guy

[mdarnell19]

Hey guys. Just joined the forum and look forward to learning more about US weapons. I have been very heavy into collecting snipers (US, German and Russian). I thought I would share pictures of my 1903A4 sniper. I believe it is a original rifle that has never been rebuilt (but my knowledge is limited). Opinions welcome. I don't think the covers in these pictures are original war time. I have a set that are. This rifle also came with a original Technical Manuel.

When I was in the 8th grade my father took me to see Saving Private Ryan and like so many I was hooked. Since that day I wanted a 1903 A4. And it is still one of my favorite rifles today.

On another note, I am interested to see if anyone knows the meaning of all the different inspection marks on the stock in front of the trigger guard. Is there any consistency with these that would allow us to track a more accurate date of when the stock was assembled to a rifle? They seem rather random to me from looking at several A4s and I can not find any pattern. If anyone has please let me know.

Thanks


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[mdarnell19]

More pictures...

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[mdarnell19]

More pictures......

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[mdarnell19]

Last pictures....

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[mdarnell19]

Here a few of the TM.

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[cplnorton]

I've already told you, but I have to say it again. Beautiful rifle Matt! It's nicer than mine. :)

On the stamps in front of the trigger housing, I've seen a lot of different ones too. So I honestly don't know. Jim Gaynor will be around sometime and this is his specialty. :)

[chuckindenver]

they are gallery markings, or sub inspectors markings

[mdarnell19]

thanks for posting these pictures

How about some pictures of your German snipers? We don't see many of those, here or anywhere.

Sure I'll post some pictures. Which sub forum should I post them in? And what do you want to see, Single Claw, High Turret of K43?

[Johnny P]

These are the stock markings on my 03-A4 about 1700 serial numbers later.

http://i64.tinypic.com/ziu2x5.jpg

[mdarnell19]

they are gallery markings, or sub inspectors markings

Thanks for the info. I was under the impression that only a few companies made the C and Scant stocks. Any reason why so many markings? It is that each stamp represents a process done to the stock? Thanks again for the help.

[Johnny P]

It appears that the markings were applied after the rifle was finished, and the 03-A4 normally has more markings than the 03-A3. Probably as it passed each evaluation it was given another mark. Does you rifle have additional marking in the pistol grip in addition to the P proof?

[cplnorton]

It appears that the markings were applied after the rifle was finished, and the 03-A4 normally has more markings than the 03-A3. Probably as it passed each evaluation it was given another mark. Does you rifle have additional marking in the pistol grip in addition to the P proof?

Yeah that has always been my toughts as well. As it was inspected at the factory when completed, those were the stamps applied at each inspection had passed.

[chuckindenver]

Keystone and American Billiard and Bowling made scant and C stocks. as far as i know, only keystone, made them with the cut for the A4 bolt.
early Stocks were supplied by Springfield and will be pre war C stocks, the bolt notch will be hand cut as well as the handguard ring
and will be nicely done, will be FJA marked as well.
scant grip stocks were used later in production.. mostly on the last group of A4s.
just guessing, but each stamp could be fitment, to finish, ect..
nobody in the collector world knows for sure what each one is..

[mdarnell19]

It appears that the markings were applied after the rifle was finished, and the 03-A4 normally has more markings than the 03-A3. Probably as it passed each evaluation it was given another mark. Does you rifle have additional marking in the pistol grip in addition to the P proof?
Yes it does.
38982

Keystone and American Billiard and Bowling made scant and C stocks. as far as i know, only keystone, made them with the cut for the A4 bolt.
early Stocks were supplied by Springfield and will be pre war C stocks, the bolt notch will be hand cut as well as the handguard ring
and will be nicely done, will be FJA marked as well.
scant grip stocks were used later in production.. mostly on the last group of A4s.
just guessing, but each stamp could be fitment, to finish, ect..
nobody in the collector world knows for sure what each one is..
Great information. Thanks. This is along the lines of what I figured they did. It is interesting that they put them all in one place. Russian rifles will have several inspection marks scattered all over the stock and receiver/barrel.

So who made the stock on my rifle? I initially thought it was a Springfield stock because it's early but shouldn't it have a S in the cut off?

[cplnorton]

I don't think Springfield every made one with a machine-cut bolt cutout, but don't quote me on that. I only study the A4 in passing and won't try to claim to know all the small details of crazy variations out there. :)

But I would imagine your's has a K in the cutoff. I tried to look at the pic and I really couldn't tell.

[Johnny P]

Tried posting this once and it didn't show up. If it does show up pardon the double post.

Markings on pistol grip of rifle shown earlier in thread. Stock is not Keystone.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2rxfxnc.jpg

[cplnorton]

Johnny is your bolt cut out like his then?

[cplnorton]

This is mine. It has more stamps in front of the trigger housing, than you usually see on them. But it's a Keystone stock and 3419099 serial.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/P1310707_zpscqspfvfd.jpg

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a535/cplnorton11/P1310711_zpski6yqj6c.jpg

[mdarnell19]

Thanks Steve. It seems like I see the "M" on most C stocks. I doubt there is a connection but possibly. On my stock there is no stamp in the cut off (at least that I can see). Also, my stock seems to be a harder Walnut that made it difficult to stamp. Which is why all the inspection/acceptance stamps are light.

[Johnny P]

Johnny is your bolt cut out like his then?

Bolt cut on my rifle.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2e2qf00.jpg

[cplnorton]

I've always have really like that rifle Johnny. Didn't you get it off a doctor or Dentist who said he got direct from a Arsenal in the 60's or something?

[jgaynor]

I have Darnell's A4 in my database. Unfortunately I captured it before i was logging the posting date so I can only guess as to when i first saw it. Nothing about the rifle seems to have changed in the interim.

As far as the sub inspectors marks are concerned A4's generally seem to have 5 whereas A3's one have 4. Occasionally a rifle will have more (7 or 8). I don't know for a fact but i suspect that some defect was noted, the rifle pulled out of line and sent back dow to be corrected and reinspected at each station.


On the hand-cut bolt notches. This operation may well have been by an operator using power tools. As time went on the smart thing to do would be to have the stock subcontractor do the bolt notch in their facility.

In any case it was and is a very nice example of an A4
:1948:

Regards,

Jim

[Johnny P]

I've always have really like that rifle Johnny. Didn't you get it off a doctor or Dentist who said he got direct from a Arsenal in the 60's or something?

Yes. Bought it from a dentist that retired from the Navy. Said he bought it out of Benecia, and I think it was in the 70's but don't remember the date for sure. It is the best I have seen.

[Johnny P]

For comparison is a Keystone stock at the top, the 03-A4 in the middle, and a Springfield Armory C stock. The pistol grip of the 03-A4 stock has more sweep than the Keystone, and is most similar to the C stock, but is not as trim in the wrist as the C stock.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2ewi337.jpg

[mdarnell19]

I have Darnell's A4 in my database. Unfortunately I captured it before i was logging the posting date so I can only guess as to when i first saw it. Nothing about the rifle seems to have changed in the interim.

As far as the sub inspectors marks are concerned A4's generally seem to have 5 whereas A3's one have 4. Occasionally a rifle will have more (7 or 8). I don't know for a fact but i suspect that some defect was noted, the rifle pulled out of line and sent back dow to be corrected and reinspected at each station.


On the hand-cut bolt notches. This operation may well have been by an operator using power tools. As time went on the smart thing to do would be to have the stock subcontractor do the bolt notch in their facility.

In any case it was and is a very nice example of an A4
:1948:

Regards,

Jim

Thanks Jim. You saw this rifle when I posted it on Gunboards last year (my user name there is msniper19). I am sure that is when you logged it. And I haven't changed a thing except the scope covers.

[mdarnell19]

Hey mdarnel,

thanks for the reply

Single claw

there's a Sniper Rifles section to this forum

and the 98k Forum has a Sniper and Optics section with two recent postings of Single Claw rifles you might enjoy, and with which yours would combine nicely

Sure I'll post it here in the sniper section. I have posted it on k98kfourm.com before.