39024 Question for the Gods

[blackhawk2]

About all I know about krags is get the serial number and look for a hit in my SRS books....So I give a spot report...The good , it currently sits in a saddle ring 1898 carbine stock...Faint cartouche, with a big dent in it....Very faint Circle P.....Good size 1.5 by 1/4 sliver of wood missing aft of the bolt handle....Top handguard is a replacement, rear sight screws are modern replacement, appears to be a rifle rear sight.....Muzzle has the same profile of an 03...The front sight appears to be correct, but it is not the best of installs...The neat thing at the top butt screw has a id #.....K2
19..The production chart says it is a rifle....So the question is, could it be really a carbine???....It is at Cabela's....regards...alex

[m1903rifle]

What's the serial number range?

[blackhawk2]

39024.....

[Dick Hosmer]

Cabela's - strike one (they get the dregs).

If the number is 39024 it is a Model 1896 and would not fit into an 1898 stock. If the number is 39024X, it is way out of 1898 Carbine range. - strike two.

If the front sight is not perfectly done, it has met Bubba - strike three, yer out, at the old ball game!

[blackhawk2]

Hi Dick, the receiver is stamped 1896....It does have a saddle ring....The barrel band is the bottom one on page 55 in the Poyer book...regards....alex

[jon_norstog]

Blackhawk, if the barrel is good, it is worth at least $300. If the stock is really a '98 and the receiver is a '96, someone had to do some serious knife work to make it fit. Maybe thaT's how that piece of wood got knocked out. As a hunting rifle you would want to lose the saddle ring - it is noisy and interferes with the carry. It could be a decent shooter if the price is right.

Good luck!

jn

[5MadFarmers]

Cabela's - strike one (they get the dregs).

That does make me marginally curious on how you manage to hit each and every one of them with frequency. The on-line gun library doesn't count.


About all I know about krags is get the serial number and look for a hit in my SRS books

Strange thing that. Just this morning I saw what'd I'd consider to be a very interesting carbine. Very interesting indeed. In spite of having digitized the SRS entries for easy access I didn't even bother to look. Why not? I just don't consider it to be that significant. Different strokes I guess.

Cabela's and stores like that get guns. The good, the bad, and the ugly. What they do not get is strictly the dregs. They buy entire collections. We have a nice big one across from the grocery store now. Time well spent is time spent talking to the guys working the gun desk. Strange things can come of that.

When they get guns in, used, they have to take a good guess at what the gun is and what it's worth. I'd suspect some maybe contact guys at other stores and maybe some don't. The thing is they get guns of all kinds. Shotguns, hunting rifles, old military rifles, etc., Those that they consider interesting will end up in the gun library. Those will be viewable online. Those they don't consider that interesting end up out on the racks. Those aren't easily found online. That is where the deals will be found.

So you did that part right. Keep looking on the racks.

What that means is they had little idea of what they were looking at. Is Cabela's going to target "Krag experts?" Only if they want to lose their shirts. If I was hiring a guy for that job I'd ensure he was good with nice shotguns. The turn-over is a lot higher and they typically get good money. A good trade in nice shotguns will keep them afloat. Giving away shotguns and sitting on highly priced military guns isn't wise. The other area they need to focus on is handguns as they get tons of those.

So you did that part right. They're likely not to recognize the obscure well.

All of that said, the one thing you need to do is figure out how to take a quick photo with your cell phone. Then email it to yourself. Then use that to get opinions.

A photo paints a thousand words. You see, this morning I saw what I'd consider to be an interesting carbine. It was the picture you see. It just kind of called out to me. "I'm interesting don't you think?" Yes, I do. Indeed I do.

[Dick Hosmer]

Cabela's, like every other large national chain store varies as to the quality of its' merchandise and staff. My only experience has been with the Reno NV store, and it has been uniformly bad. Your point is well-taken as to browsing the racks - but - the price is the (often unrealistic) price, no matter how much of a POS the gun happens to be (and a lot of them at Reno were). Your mileage - in Wisconsin - may well vary.

[5MadFarmers]

Cabela's, like every other large national chain store varies as to the quality of its' merchandise and staff. My only experience has been with the Reno NV store, and it has been uniformly bad. Your point is well-taken as to browsing the racks - but - the price is the (often unrealistic) price, no matter how much of a POS the gun happens to be (and a lot of them at Reno were). Your mileage - in Wisconsin - may well vary.

Can't speak to Reno as I've never been there. There are three here that I have been in periodically. One is a very early store and not on the scale of the others. The other two are full size with the one here being pretty new. Last year maybe? They're fishing for Bass. Big Wallet Bass.

Gun which they find interesting comes in? Into the Library. Fishing for Big Wallet Bass. Put a price tag on it that is rather large. See if they get a bite. Likely don't mind hanging on to it and the price could possibly even reflect that. If it's not something they find interesting it'll go out on the racks for the Cheap Carp. Be a Carp. There are no deals in the pool where they fish for Bass.

When Ford introduced the new Shelby with that interesting V-8 each dealership received 1. They could get more depending on a formula but each could get 1. They promptly went into the showroom. MSRP was $57K off the top of my head. They put price stickers on them letting anyone interested know that $57K wasn't going to cut it. Premium of $10K was typical. Willing to pay $57K MSRP + $10K for our showroom car? Ok. The GT350R premium was stunning. "Double MSRP" kind of thing. Why put the $10K premium? It's a showroom car. Get people inside to gawk at it. If one of them had an extra $10K they wanted to part with they could take it. Exactly one year later you could get them for MSRP. In the case of one dealer in Missouri it was actually below MSRP. Why? "The new year model arrived." Guess what they did with those?

I know, I know, only an idiot would pay MSRP +10K. Except that's entirely incorrect. Defies logic. Go to the bank and ask for a loan for MSRP + $10K when they know full well that car will be sold at MSRP at the end of the year. You default and they get it back - and have to eat a serious loss? "No dice." Ergo those that paid that premium wrote a check. Idiots rarely have the ability to write checks for $70K. Every day lots and lots of people go to Starbucks. They pay over $1 for a cup of coffee. "If you made it at home it'd be about $.03." They don't sweat the $1. They are willing to part for it for the cup of coffee. Likewise those with wealth levels high enough decide to not sweat the $10K because they want that car. "Chump change." If you make 8 figures a year it'd be a rounding error.

Cabela's is working that I'd say. That library. Price it so you have something interesting to draw in the people. Like a showroom. At a Ford dealer everyone looked at the Shelby and maybe bought a regular Mustang. It did what it was supposed to do. Similarly at Cabelas the Library is entertainment. Willing to pay that premium? You can have the gun. What you're supposed to do is kick the tires and then buy something reasonable. On the lot, in the racks, same thing. There are deals in there if you know what you're after. In the Library? Only if somebody really mucked up.

I reviewed the guns in the rack in the store here not long ago. Just off the top of my head one gun was a good deal. I mention one strictly as an example. It was a deal as the gun was reasonably priced and it had a very nice M-1907 sling on it. The sling added value greatly. Made that gun quite the buy. Who would notice that sling? Not the person who priced it.

There are deals there. You just have to look often. That an know what you're looking for.

"Retail space costs money every day." Lights. Workers. Carpet cleaning. A store has X amount of space. If everything is sitting on the shelves forever the overhead costs are increased. Most really well run places track the amount of time shelves are full. The higher the turnover the lower the overhead. Walmart perfected it. Cabela's isn't stupid. Racks full of guns that never move do not make money. They do not pay the overhead. Keep those ones moving. So if the gun on the rack is higher than you'd like, make an offer. If they tell you to go pound sand go back monthly with the same offer. Be polite. You'll get it for that in the end.

[Dick Hosmer]

When they were starting in the antique gun business - maybe 10/12 years ago? - they did not do their due diligence, and bargains could be had even in the Library. News of this apparently filtered back to the bigwigs and they put a stop to it via the above noted car dealer M.O.

I'd browse the racks at Reno, except it is an ALL-day trip (not "across from the grocery store") to do so. Even though I really like driving my new Tucson, that's a bit much, for iffy results.

[5MadFarmers]

When they were starting in the antique gun business - maybe 10/12 years ago? - they did not do their due diligence, and bargains could be had even in the Library. News of this apparently filtered back to the bigwigs and they put a stop to it via the above noted car dealer M.O.

An inefficient company is a company which will fold. They're bound to improve efficiency over time.

The gun library is like my living room wall. It's decoration. Offer me enough and you'll be taking a decoration home with you. I'll re-decorate for a premium.


I'd browse the racks at Reno, except it is an ALL-day trip (not "across from the grocery store") to do so. Even though I really like driving my new Tucson, that's a bit much, for iffy results.

Yeah, that's kind of a time/money/interest thing. No different from trolling gunbroker. If I just wanted something it'd be more fruitful to work. Why? Good money. From a time/money perspective a job will easily offset any value of a bargain. So why bother spending time trolling for deals? It's fun. Unlike a job. So if trolling guns is something one finds interesting, and they have a place nearby, go for it. The sooner you hit the door after the item the more likely you'll get a peach. I could easily go there daily if I really wanted to. Just not that interested.

If you want a deal at that place go weekly. Talk to them. If you're specific enough, and polite, they might even call you when something hits the radar.

I was talking to the gun dude at the one over in Milwaukee some years ago. He gave me a tip on a collection. They'd been contacted but weren't interested. Not bad people to know.

[blackhawk2]

I took some pictures of the carbine, just have to wait for my iT person.....Short story on SRS numbers....I was looking to purchase a krag to fill a hole in my collection....I saw a Pennsylvania deer rifle, a cut down krag....The saddle ring was filled in, so I gave it a miss, but I did record the number....Researched the number, it was a real carbine....I discovered that carbine was issued in Pittsburg Pa to a newly established regular army unit that was just stood up.....That unit was sent to the PI....In Dug out Doug's annual report of 02 or 03, the unit with the krag was reported in a named town....That carbine was only $200...2 weeks had passed, and they had turned the day before I called....10 years ago cut down krag's were a dime a dozen, only if....
Some thoughts on Cabelas....Years ago I was told the Hamburg Pa was the largest in the country...The personnel turn over was , and is very high ..If you stay for 13 years or longer you are let go....No retirement bennies there....They were the place to sell your estate, or collection....I know they don't offer anything fair....Word got out, collections went down....What did happen, more gun auctions started up, gun dealers did not close down.....The biggest gun auction is in Lancaster county, they take 30%, if it goes over 10 grand, the cut goes to 20%....At Cabelas you are lucky to get 50%......Any way, back in the day it was easy to find a Cabelas mistake....If you knew a little bit, you could make a couple of bucks....It was a blast.....

[5MadFarmers]

I took some pictures of the carbine, just have to wait for my iT person.....Short story on SRS numbers....I was looking to purchase a krag to fill a hole in my collection....I saw a Pennsylvania deer rifle, a cut down krag....The saddle ring was filled in, so I gave it a miss, but I did record the number....Researched the number, it was a real carbine....I discovered that carbine was issued in Pittsburg Pa to a newly established regular army unit that was just stood up.....That unit was sent to the PI....In Dug out Doug's annual report of 02 or 03, the unit with the krag was reported in a named town....That carbine was only $200...2 weeks had passed, and they had turned the day before I called....10 years ago cut down krag's were a dime a dozen, only if....

Somebody grabbed it before it went cold. The main thing you did right, and it's the most important thing, is checked the rear sight. You mentioned it was rifle. The amount of kicking you give yourself is based on the sight as that, on a carbine, is really the high dollar part. If it was a carbine sight, at $200, then you'd really want to kick yourself. Rifle sight? Not so much. Letting a carbine go at $200 is kind of ugly but, conversely, if you did get it you'd be looking to spend some coin on a carbine sight.


Some thoughts on Cabelas....Years ago I was told the Hamburg Pa was the largest in the country...The personnel turn over was , and is very high ..If you stay for 13 years or longer you are let go....No retirement bennies there....They were the place to sell your estate, or collection....I know they don't offer anything fair....Word got out, collections went down....What did happen, more gun auctions started up, gun dealers did not close down.....The biggest gun auction is in Lancaster county, they take 30%, if it goes over 10 grand, the cut goes to 20%....At Cabelas you are lucky to get 50%......Any way, back in the day it was easy to find a Cabelas mistake....If you knew a little bit, you could make a couple of bucks....It was a blast.....

Every venue seems to go through that. When eBay first appeared, everybody and their brother started selling the stuff they had laying around. Nobody could find anything, people didn't know how to bid, eBay would freeze up and people couldn't get bids in. It was 24/7 bonanza. eBay improved and buyer's improved. Today it's downright hard to get a steal.

Local estate auctions were a bonanza. Drive out to the middle of nowhere and get interesting stuff cheap. "Competition" was local so you might in fact be the only one there interested. Went to one auction where there were 8 buyers. Nice full length Wilde Bayonet came home with me for a song. Accompanied by some other nice bayonets and knives. Took a Remington Model 8 for $60 at one.

Then they discovered Proxybid and national competition joined in. Today it's downright hard to get a steal.

That said, Proxibid is likely the best venue right now. The only thing better is an auction by a local place without any online presence.

Last Krag rifle I bought was in real nice shape and in incredible shape. No buyer's fee and no tax.
Last M1 rifle I took was a lend-lease. No buyer's fee and no tax.

Same house, different auctions.

Carbines pop up on Proxibid. The big places, Rock Island, etc., are on there too. Not Julie though that I've seen.

[blackhawk2]

Got to Cabelas, it was packed, and I rushed the photo's....Will try to post a few more....I learned from my first mistake...Found a Cabelas mistake a few years ago....It was a cut down krag...Some one did me a favor and installed a C rear sight....Took a chance at $250, as the Baltimore show was in a couple of weeks....A guy was walking the line, I said $750, he said $ 650, I said sold....Baltimore has to be the neatest show in the country...It is like going to a museum, where you can buy stuff....Frank Mallory said it is a show of high end humpers....regards...alex

[5MadFarmers]

Rear sight is really the key there. It it's rifle I'd not be surprised. Look at the finish (more accurately lack thereof) on the saddle ring bits. Then look at that barrel band. I'd say the band was replaced as it doesn't match the finish on the saddle ring. Or the other metal bits really. So, at a guess, I'd say it's a carbine that somebody "restored" without access to matching parts. Not any kind of crime or anything. So, on that one, it really does boil down to the sight. If it's a rifle sight the "desired" M-1896 carbine sight will set you back, let's call it $500, so you're looking at $1,200 for a gun with "finish mismatch issues." That's assuming you're patient enough to find a sight. If that does have the carbine sight you're looking at quite a good deal.

[blackhawk2]

40188 40189 40190 40191

[blackhawk2]

Because of the incorrect replaced top hand guard, I could not observe a C.....I am sure, at a glance, you will know what it is....I don't know for sure....I have veered out of my lane....Last picture is for Dick....It was taken thru a glass door....The gun library was over whelmed, it was the closest I could get to them...One of them had a ram rod....enjoy.....regards....alex

[5MadFarmers]

Because of the incorrect replaced top hand guard, I could not observe a C.....I am sure, at a glance, you will know what it is

Rifle. Carbine graduations go to 20. Where the "18" is on the rifle it'll be "20" on a carbine with a "C" on the other side. Base will have C also but the ladder needs the "20" and "C." For what it's worth there are rifle sights out there "refinished to carbine markings" by the hopeful but (so far) untalented.

Hand guard is lumber.

Myself I'd pass at that price. Finding rear sights for carbines is hard. The 1896c rates nearly impossible.

http://5madfarmers.com/krag_stuff/carbs.small.jpg