Krag SRS hit ....so need help on history

[Discus420]

SRS hit 171849 98 R 07 15 99 26TH USV INF (ISSUED)

So I got this rifle and would love to find out more on the History I have been googling the Shot out of it and don't find much on 26th USV Infantry

Anybody have any suggestions??


40583

P.S. later found out the serial is 171849 but with luck still has the same SRS info 171849 98 R 07 15 99 26TH USV INF (ISSUED)

[Dan Shapiro]

Good luck in your search. Don't know if you're familiar with the history, but The 'Dick Act of 1916' established what is now known as "The National Guard". Prior to that, each state had it's own army.....er....ah....."militia". In times of National Emergency, militia units could "volunteer" for Federal service. So naturally, there were a lot of "26th US VOLUNTEERS. The problem is finding out WHAT STATE they came from. Example: Teddy Roosevelt and his '1st US Volunteer Cavalry'. The US Army already had a "1st US Cavalry".....hence the insertion of the word VOLUNTEER in the title of Teddy's unit. Makes for a lot of confusion.

On another note, used to be that the military would append the YEAR to the description of a piece of equipment that was adopted/issued. Made sense. Then in 1936 the military decided that each new piece of equipment would be designated "M1" or (Model 1), followed by M2, M3 etc. So, today, with a computer.....search for "M1". Rifle? Carbine? Radio? Mess gear? Helmet? Bayonet? Kind of explains why we have the "M16 rifle" and the "M4 carbine".

[5MadFarmers]

SRS hit 171840 98 R 07 15 99 26TH USV INF (ISSUED)

So I got this rifle and would love to find out more on the History I have been googling the Shot out of it and don't find much on 26th USV Infantry

Anybody have any suggestions??


40583

State Militia units were raised by the Sates. Thus the "1st New York Volunteer Infantry" would be a State Militia unit taken into Federal service. As the war ended quickly they needed to discharge them but the need for troops in the Philippines still existed - beyond what the regular army could do.

On March 2, 1899, they authorized 35,000 additional troops. Unlike the previous ones, these were true "United States Volunteers." The 26th United States Volunteers were raised by the Feds and had no State affiliation.

The 26th United States Volunteer Infantry arrived in Manila on the 24th of October, 1899.

Not a State unit. United States Volunteers. In World War One that would be basically "National Army."
Regular Army (Divisions 1-25)
National Guard [Militia] (Divisions 26-75)
National Army [Volunteers or draftees] (Divisions 76+)

So the Militia became the National Guard and the United States Volunteers became the National Army.

[jon_norstog]

Found a little on this unit. They were involved in the "pacification" of Samar after the attack on C Company of the 9th Infantry in Balangiga earlier in the year. The Army was out for blood:

"

In the April 18, 1902 issue of the New York World, Richard Thomas O'Brien, formerly a corporal in Company M, 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry Regiment, based in Miag-ao, Iloilo Province, Panay Island, described how his birthday went on Dec. 27, 1901 at Barrio Lanog: [LEFT, Miag-ao Church, late 1890's]

"It was on the 27th day of December, the anniversary of my birth, and I shall never forget the scenes I witnessed on that day. As we approached the town the word passed along the line that there would be no prisoners taken. It meant that we were to shoot every living thing in sight—man, woman, and child. The first shot was fired by the then first sergeant of our company. His target was a mere boy, who was coming down the mountain path into the town astride of a caribou. The boy was not struck by the bullet, but that was not the sergeant's fault. The little Filipino boy slid from the back of his caribou and fled in terror up the mountain side. Half a dozen shots were fired after him. The shooting now had attracted the villagers, who came out of their homes in alarm, wondering what it all meant. They offered no offense, did not display a weapon, made no hostile movement whatsoever, but they were ruthlessly shot down in cold blood—men, women, and children. The poor natives huddled together or fled in terror. Many were pursued and killed on the spot.

"Two old men, bearing between them a white flag and clasping hands like two brothers, approached the lines. Their hair was white. They fairly tottered, they were so feeble under the weight of years. To my horror and that of the other men in the command, the order was given to fire, and the two old men were shot down in their tracks. We entered the village. A man who had been on a sick-bed appeared at the doorway of his home. He received a bullet in the abdomen and fell dead in the doorway. Dum-dum bullets were used in that massacre, but we were not told the name of the bullets. We didn't have to be told. We knew what they were.

"In another part of the village a mother with a babe at her breast and two young children at her side pleaded for mercy. She feared to leave her home, which had just been fired—accidentally, I believe. She faced the flames with her children, and not a hand was raised to save her or the little ones. They perished miserably. It was sure death if she left the house—it was sure death if she remained. She feared the American soldiers, however, worse than the devouring flames."

Company M was commanded by Capt. Fred McDonald."

jn

[dave]

Was anyone ever punished for that?

[M2Phil]

State Militia units were raised by the Sates. Thus the "1st New York Volunteer Infantry" would be a State Militia unit taken into Federal service. As the war ended quickly they needed to discharge them but the need for troops in the Philippines still existed - beyond what the regular army could do.

On March 2, 1899, they authorized 35,000 additional troops. Unlike the previous ones, these were true "United States Volunteers." The 26th United States Volunteers were raised by the Feds and had no State affiliation.

The 26th United States Volunteer Infantry arrived in Manila on the 24th of October, 1899.

Not a State unit. United States Volunteers. In World War One that would be basically "National Army."
Regular Army (Divisions 1-25)
National Guard [Militia] (Divisions 26-75)
National Army [Volunteers or draftees] (Divisions 76+)

So the Militia became the National Guard and the United States Volunteers became the National Army.

IIRC, there was some legal question as to whether State militia could be used overseas and they sidestepped it by more or less disbanding and reforming the "(Insert State here) State militia" into (Insert State here) "Volunteer" Infantry (etc.) with very limited enlistment terms. When those units' time expired, they returned home and became, once again, the original militia unit. USV units raised were as you say, and in many cases were better trained and equipped than either Regular Army or State units, with higher quality recruits. But they too, were eventually phased out. The "National Army" of WWI was created from the huge induction of draftees, and I don't believe they were directly descended from the USV program.

[Fred]

I once owned rifles 171117 and 172986. Both were shipped within the same rifle crate as per the records that I received from Springfield Research. Frank Mallory sent me a photocopy of the unit's weekly journal or report while they were serving overseas. He also sent me the typed list of every rifle by serial number and another set of photocopies of the original hand written list of rifle chests by number as well as the serial number of every rifle within each rifle crate.

Damn Damn Damn the Inserecto's
Pock marked Kakiak Ladrones
Underneath the Stary Flag
Civilize them with a Krag
And return us to our own beloved homes

[5MadFarmers]

IIRC, there was some legal question as to whether State militia could be used overseas and they sidestepped it by more or less disbanding and reforming the "(Insert State here) State militia" into (Insert State here) "Volunteer" Infantry (etc.) with very limited enlistment terms.

Correct.


USV units raised were as you say, and in many cases were better trained and equipped than either Regular Army or State units, with higher quality recruits. But they too, were eventually phased out. The "National Army" of WWI was created from the huge induction of draftees, and I don't believe they were directly descended from the USV program.

Not "direct" but in concept.

19th century. The army and militia were really internal. Army called first and then militia.
20th century. Which, with respect to this, really started in 1898. No more internal. Indian wars were over. Now the army would likely be overseas instead of at home. Militia needed to morph. Army needed a way to expand without tagging the militia. U.S. Volunteers. Then National Army. Then reserves right? "Federal militia" in some ways.

They've morphed it as conditions have changed. When a problem identifies itself they do a quick fix and then address it. Militia needed to morph so the Dick Act of 1903 did that. Army wanted more control and received that via the National Defense Act of 1916. Which pretty much nuked the organized militia with it replaced by the national guard. Also created that National Army thing.

So, no not direct, but the seed.

[Discus420]

I once owned rifles 171117 and 172986. Both were shipped within the same rifle crate as per the records that I received from Springfield Research. Frank Mallory sent me a photocopy of the unit's weekly journal or report while they were serving overseas. He also sent me the typed list of every rifle by serial number and another set of photocopies of the original hand written list of rifle chests by number as well as the serial number of every rifle within each rifle crate.
Fred
Is there any way I Could get a copy of that info for my records since they shipped together please I will split the cost of the material with you I know it wasn't free

In the days of dopey dreams—
happy, peaceful Philippines,
When the bolomen were busy all night long.
When ladrones would steal and lie, and Americanos die
Then you heard the soldiers sing this evening song:
Damn, damn, damn the insurrectos!
Cross-eyed kakiac ladrones!Underneath the starry flag,
civilize 'em with a Krag,
And return us to our own beloved homes.

[Discus420]

Thank you all I cant begin to say how amazed I am at the knowledge you guys have

[jon_norstog]

Was anyone ever punished for that?

There were courts martial, surprisingly for senior officers, and at least one conviction. USMC Major Littleton Waller escaped punishment because he was able to produce written orders from Brig. Gen. Jacob Smith, directing him to take no prisoners and kill every male over the age of 10. Jacob Smith was tried for conduct to the prejudice of good order etc., convicted and given a reprimand.

Smith was subsequently "retired" from the Army by Secretary Elihu Root, apparently at the wishes of President Roosevelt.

jn

[blackhawk2]

If you research Doug out Doug's yearly Annual report for operations in the Philippines you may get lucky on the 26th...regards...alex

[sdkrag]

U.S. Volunteer units were authorized by congress during the Spanish American War. Three Regiments of Volunteer Cavalry (1000 men/Reg.) were authorized on legislation provided by Melvin Grigsby Attorney General of South Dakota. Grigsby was awarded the command (Not by the Gov. of SD) but on Federal Authority, of the 3rd Regiment, raised in SD, ND, Neb., and Mt. Leonard Wood commanded the 1st raised in the SW. States and the 2nd was raised in Wyo./Co. These were Federally authorized and the Col. were appointed. The 1st (Rough Riders) were the only unit to go over seas. Grigsby's Cowboys went to Chicamaga, Ga. for training. I have the unit history published in 1899 which gives a great description of the entire 6 mo. unit history. Pictures are great with Krag Carbines, Colt SAA, and all the accutrements issued. There are even lists of rations. Pretty rare book but a great insight on the period.

[jon_norstog]

I seem to remember reading that part of the 3rd USV Cavalry was raised in Nevada, that part or all of that unit went back east but never made it to Cuba, and that a couple companies at least went to the Philippines. It was a document on the Nevada Historical Society web page IIRC. I was goofing around with another SRS carbine hit from this site. I'll see if I can find it again.

Here's the muster for troops A through E. No mention of Nevada.

http://files.usgwarchives.net/sd/military/sp-am/lxxvii.txt

jn

[jon_norstog]

I may have been thinking of the First Nevada Volunteer Cavalry - Troop A did go to the Philippines. My bad!

http://www.omsa.org/files/jomsa_arch/Splits/1979/27317_JOMSA_Vol30_12_04.pdf

jn

[madsenshooter]

Found a little on this unit. They were involved in the "pacification" of Samar after the attack on C Company of the 9th Infantry in Balangiga earlier in the year. The Army was out for blood:

"

In the April 18, 1902 issue of the New York World, Richard Thomas O'Brien, formerly a corporal in Company M, 26th U.S. Volunteer Infantry Regiment, based in Miag-ao, Iloilo Province, Panay Island, described how his birthday went on Dec. 27, 1901 at Barrio Lanog: [LEFT, Miag-ao Church, late 1890's]

"It was on the 27th day of December, the anniversary of my birth, and I shall never forget the scenes I witnessed on that day. As we approached the town the word passed along the line that there would be no prisoners taken. It meant that we were to shoot every living thing in sight—man, woman, and child. The first shot was fired by the then first sergeant of our company. His target was a mere boy, who was coming down the mountain path into the town astride of a caribou. The boy was not struck by the bullet, but that was not the sergeant's fault. The little Filipino boy slid from the back of his caribou and fled in terror up the mountain side. Half a dozen shots were fired after him. The shooting now had attracted the villagers, who came out of their homes in alarm, wondering what it all meant. They offered no offense, did not display a weapon, made no hostile movement whatsoever, but they were ruthlessly shot down in cold blood—men, women, and children. The poor natives huddled together or fled in terror. Many were pursued and killed on the spot.

"Two old men, bearing between them a white flag and clasping hands like two brothers, approached the lines. Their hair was white. They fairly tottered, they were so feeble under the weight of years. To my horror and that of the other men in the command, the order was given to fire, and the two old men were shot down in their tracks. We entered the village. A man who had been on a sick-bed appeared at the doorway of his home. He received a bullet in the abdomen and fell dead in the doorway. Dum-dum bullets were used in that massacre, but we were not told the name of the bullets. We didn't have to be told. We knew what they were.

"In another part of the village a mother with a babe at her breast and two young children at her side pleaded for mercy. She feared to leave her home, which had just been fired—accidentally, I believe. She faced the flames with her children, and not a hand was raised to save her or the little ones. They perished miserably. It was sure death if she left the house—it was sure death if she remained. She feared the American soldiers, however, worse than the devouring flames."

Company M was commanded by Capt. Fred McDonald."

jn

That's some hard reading Jon. Almost makes me look upon my 92/96 rifles with disgust! Perhaps not, but now I'll be wondering...same as any of my other milsurps I guess.

[jon_norstog]

That's some hard reading Jon. Almost makes me look upon my 92/96 rifles with disgust! Perhaps not, but now I'll be wondering...same as any of my other milsurps I guess.

I can see how it could get to you. These are weapons of war and like Sherman said, war is hell. And some men are devils who are right at home in that hell. You can't blame the gun, you gotta blame the man.

jn

[madsenshooter]

I've been on facebook too much Jon, was looking for a like button! Not the gun I agree, those behind it. I must be getting soft in my old age.

[Fred]

SRS hit 171840 98 R 07 15 99 26TH USV INF (ISSUED)

So I got this rifle and would love to find out more on the History I have been googling the Shot out of it and don't find much on 26th USV Infantry

Anybody have any suggestions??


40583

P.S. later found out the serial is 171849 but with luck still has the same SRS info 171849 98 R 07 15 99 26TH USV INF (ISSUED)

I believe that the Model 1898 rifles issued to the 26th U.S.Vollunteer Infantry in July of 1899 all had 1896 rear sights and hand guards and 1896 front sights.
Many must've been updated after turn in. 172986 was still intact and original.

[Discus420]

I believe that the Model 1898 rifles issued to the 26th U.S.Vollunteer Infantry in July of 1899 all had 1896 rear sights and hand guards and 1896 front sights.
Many must've been updated after turn in. 172986 was still intact and original.

I once owned rifles 171117 and 172986. Both were shipped within the same rifle crate as per the records that I received from Springfield Research. Frank Mallory sent me a photocopy of the unit's weekly journal or report while they were serving overseas. He also sent me the typed list of every rifle by serial number and another set of photocopies of the original hand written list of rifle chests by number as well as the serial number of every rifle within each rifle crate.




Hi Fred

Any luck with the documents showing which crate it was in?? If we can get a few more documents my son is going to use all this information for a thesis paper on Gun History. He is going to school to become a history teacher...

Thnaks Fred you have been so helpful we really appreciate all of it!!

[Fred]

Still looking for the box in the garage. I saw it 8 years ago in the house but I'm sure it's in the garage somewhere along the wall under other stuff. There's a box of 5,000 rounds of .22 long rifle ammo too that's in there somewhere, but I can't find it. I paid $87.00 for it long time back when it was cheap. Sure wish I could find it too.
I'll find the SRS material on the 26th yet.

[Fred]

You should go onto eBay now and do searches for Krag barrel, Krag front band, Krag stock and Krag 1896 Hand guard (there's not an 1896 at this time). The stock is a correct type for your rifle but of course it has a cartouche with a later date than yours would have. However, since you won't be trying to pass your rifle off as having all original parts, that stock would be just fine to complete the rifle for historical accuracy.

[Ed Byrns]

Rifle number 171849 was in chest #7120 of that shipment.
Still looking for 171840,just couldn't spot it.
Respectfully
Ed Byrns

[Dan Shapiro]

Fred sounds like me. I "put stuff" where I can find it.

Then I can't.

:icon_scratch:

[Dick Hosmer]

Ever say to yourself - "you know, you really shouldn't put that there" (but then you do anyway)?

For me the worst part of getting old is putting something down - in an admittedly cluttered garage, or desk, and then - literally 5 seconds later not having a CLUE as to where you laid it.

[Ned Butts]

That is me too!!!! I know I put it down.........but where:icon_scratch:

[Fred]

That's Why I don't like to tuck away things in drawers or boxes because I WILL forget where they are. I tend to leave my stuff and tools on top of my work benches and computer desk. Now and then I will get a paper grocery sack and sweep the stuff off into the bag to keep it under control. Then as I need something, I'll start going through the bags and dumping them out to look for it. some of it gets into the bag but the neat stuff I've located again stays out so I can mess around with it or just in case I'll be needing it again soon.. or so I think.

By the way, I've looked for the material on the Krags and I cannot find any of it out in the Garage. Sorry.

[Discus420]

Ever say to yourself - "you know, you really shouldn't put that there" (but then you do anyway)?

For me the worst part of getting old is putting something down - in an admittedly cluttered garage, or desk, and then - literally 5 seconds later not having a CLUE as to where you laid it.

and then I find it in my left hand....... oh yea that's where I put it for safe keeping

[sdkrag]

But think of the excitement when you find it again. Sometimes I even have forgotten I had the item. My sons want me to start labeling everything. They know I have "good" stuff, but what is it?

[JimF]

. . . . . . They know I have "good" stuff, but what is it?

Yup . . . I can relate . . . . .

I have made quite a few tools over the years, that I've used in the repair of my firearms . . . that are UNRECOGNIZEABLE as such!

Anyone but me looking at them, would never think they were tools!