Opportunity knocks..... maybe

[raggs]

I've been out of the game on guns these past few years, but since I've run into an M1 Carbine that I feel the seller
has been searchin the webs and has his hopes set too far. But I'd like to pick it up for the the right price if i can get it
and turn her back into WWII configuration.

Gun in question is a Underwood 2474xxx with a Inland 3-43 barrel. Replacement non GI stock, 2 rivet top end
Remington stamped butt plate, rear sight is the adjustable type, mostly missing. and GI parts for the rest of it.

He wants $850. Told him he's nuts unless someone wants a varmint shooter, an good luck at that price.

I'd figure 400, then have to source a stock, n sights n such. Nothing to say in the way she shoots...

Am I in the ballpark?

Thanks,

Raggs

[IditarodJoe]

I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say, but I suspect the seller may be closer to reality than you are. Within the market range, value depends on condition, condition, and condition. You haven't told us much, other than that it needs a stock and a rear sight - maybe $100 in the current market. Pictures would help. From what I've seen, $875 is probably in the general ballpark for a good USGI shooter.

[Tuna]

Remington didn't make any parts for carbines. The stock you said was non USGI in what is it then? Does it look like a carbine stock? As you know it has been rebuilt. The barrel being Inland is a replacement. Serial number wise late fall 1943. If it has an adjustable rear sight on it then you really can't make it into WW2 vintage again as the rear sight will be very well staked into the dove tail. Underwood never used the adjustable rear sight during their production. You can replace the rear sight with another adjustable or with a repo flip sight but the adjustable is most likely better. Figure $35 or so for a good one. The stock can range from $25 for a reproduction to $200+ for an original. Your offer of $400 would be considered to be low as receivers by themselves are going for $300+. I would say a fair offer would be $550 to $600. They are retailing now non imports for the $800 to $900m range.

[raggs]

Joe & Tuna, thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised on what you guys say these are worth these days.

Now I'm not in the same location as the carbine in question is but I did get some pics sent to me.

407524075340754

As far as the stock maker goes, no clue, I cant put my own eyes on it, but it doesnt have the oiler cut.
The rear sight a Williams adjustable sight, but from the pics posted it looks like some put some effort into removing
the original flip sight. The rear of the receiver looks pretty beat up.
The front band has been replaced with a bayonet band and there is good park left on the barrel.
I'd imagine if took this thing down she'd be just a mess of a mixmaster.

There is some horse trading he wants to do for this but I gotta know a reasonable price on putting this
back in GI condition first. If I walk from it no big deal.

Thanks again

Raggs

[Ken The Kanuck]

I pulled this off of a Canadian gun site (Canadain Gun Nut if you are interested but you have to join).

The difference between a non-restricted and restricted carbine is barrel length, some are and some aren't restricted, my Barvarian is restricted.

The Canuck buck is about 72 cents American, so you can do the math.

"Selling a restricted plainfield m1 carbine. It's in pretty good shape just some small marks on the stock. Located in London. $650 shipped."

Up here we can just mail guns, no FFL or whatever hoops you guys have to jump through.

HTH

KTK

[IditarodJoe]

Really interesting post, Ken!

1. I don't understand the "barrel length" thing. AFAIK, all M1 carbine barrels are the same length. :icon_scratch:

2. I wasn't aware that the exchange rate was so great. Good news for me as I have to travel to Ontario for a wedding later this year.

3. As you may know, the Plainfield was a commercial knockoff of the US government carbine and their value is much lower than actual USGI M1 carbines.

4. Wow! In spite of all of Canada's restrictions, the fact that you can freely mail firearms without government interference is a big plus. I can still remember the days when that was the case here, before our government started their meddling.

Thanks. :wave:

[Ken The Kanuck]

I copied this from a google look up, I noticed that a Sunray had posted an answer, I wonder if it is the same Sunray that graces this forum? If so he may have more information regarding the barrel lengths as it does appear that there is more than just the 18"

KTK

06-16-2009, 02:44 AM
i noticed the barrel length of the carbine is only 18" isnt that too short to be legal an answer is appreciated
Juster
06-16-2009, 02:47 AM
Yes they are, no it isn't. It is restricted, there are non-restricted with longer barrels.
ki11ercane
06-16-2009, 02:59 AM
i noticed the barrel length of the carbine is only 18" isnt that too short to be legal an answer is appreciated

Owning an M1 Carbine will make your wiener fall off. Please rush your M1's to me promptly for proper disposal.
rivetc78
06-17-2009, 12:53 PM
It is restricted, there are non-restricted with longer barrels.

Non-restricted M1??
sunray
06-17-2009, 01:26 PM
"...Non-restricted M1??..." Few and far between. Back in 1978ish, when the Socialist F**ks created the 18" or longer law for semi-auto centrefires, Iver Johnson made some 19" barreled carbines. They're not made any more. There are a few around, but not many.
Until the current batch of stupid laws, it was ok to add a piece of barrel to a carbine and that made it unrestricted. You can't do that now.
Issue 15 and 30 round mags are evil all by themselves too.
Eagle-1
06-17-2009, 01:39 PM
i have had both restricted & non- restricted M-1 carbines, fun guns too shoot, very reliable. and the non-restricted made a nice brush gun for deer.
Applefarmer
06-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Back in the mid 80's a Guy in Toronto was pumping out barrels and rebarrelling as well as making the M1 into a 45win mag as another option. The M1 frame didn't hold up well to the 45 win mag and the guy went bust.

[Tuna]

The receiver was made for Underwood by Universal Winding as one of four sub-contractors for Underwood. That is what the letter stamped on the heel of the receiver means. On a pristine carbine it may add $50 to the value to a collector.

[raggs]

Thanks for that bit of info Tuna. I was wondering about that.........

[Sunray]

"...I'd figure $400..." Not a chance. The CMP was selling Carbines for more than that. They started at $625 for a Field grade last year.
"...the same Sunray..." Yep. Was on CGN for 11 years before the children took it over.
The Carbine has been 'Restricted' in Canada and required a handgun licence since 1978 entirely due to the barrel length. (Alleged that Montreal bikers were using 'em a lot.) At that time, it was ok to put on a permanent muzzle brake/flash hider to make the barrel longer than 18.5"(had to be rifled so a few .303 barrels got turned into barrel extensions), but the last batch of idiotic laws stopped that. Criterion makes an 18.75" "Canada Legal" Carbine barrel these days.
However, it has nothing whatever to do with collectable or shooter Carbines, Stateside. Strictly a stupid Canadian law thing.
"...can freely mail firearms without government interference..." Not quite without government interference or freely. Firearms go by regular Parcel Post but must require a signature on the receiving end when shipped by Ken or myself. A business must use Expedited Parcel with the Proof of Age. No air mail at all.
"...turn her back into WWII configuration..." Cost a fortune and you'll still have a rebuilt Carbine. "Correct" parts does not make it a collector's piece. Especially as Underwood only made 35 of the parts(neither did any other maker). Rest of 'em came from of the hundreds of small shops all over the Eastern U.S. that made Carbine parts. That picture looks like the rear sight dovetail is gone.

[raggs]

Thanks Sunray.

I understand it will cost some cash to make this rifle GI again, (not orig) stock ($100-200), sight ($50), buttplate ($20-50),
re-park and who knows what else.
But to me this isnt Apples to CMP M1 Apples they WERE GI and not in this rifles current condition for that price.

The dovetail does concern me as he has a Williams sight on this now that slides in the dovetail but
has set screws that anchor down on the back of the receiver. Wobbily, probably.

And no clue on how she shoots either.

Bottom line is he wants to trade a mint S&W .357 with holster, belt and ammo for that M1.
I'm not biting on that, hence the $400 appraisal.
Think I'll just walk away........

Raggs

[PaFrank]

I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say, but I suspect the seller may be closer to reality than you are. Within the market range, value depends on condition, condition, and condition. You haven't told us much, other than that it needs a stock and a rear sight - maybe $100 in the current market. Pictures would help. From what I've seen, $875 is probably in the general ballpark for a good USGI shooter.

I agree. In my neck of the woods, even a beater goes for $750, One as described closer to a grand.

[Tuna]

Today to restore this carbine would cost $250 for a correct dated barrel if you can find one. $250 for a correct Underwood stock if you can find one. $150 for a correct rear sight and $150 for a correct barrel band. Good luck finding those. Now at $800 we are not finished. Now if any of the trigger housing and parts have been changed then you must also add those to the cost and include the front sight too. Yes one needs deep pockets to restore a carbine today. But there is one good thing in that the dove tail for the rear sight has not been staked and marked by the use of an adjustable rear sight. That is a desirable thing. But once done the value of a nice restoration will increase the value to the $1500 to $2000 range. But it can take years to find original parts for this and you have to be aware of the fake parts sold as originals. Rear sights, barrel bands, stocks and some trigger parts. You really have to know what is real and what is fake.

[dave]

Joe & Tuna, thanks for the replies. I'm a little surprised on what you guys say these are worth these days.

Now I'm not in the same location as the carbine in question is but I did get some pics sent to me.

407524075340754

As far as the stock maker goes, no clue, I cant put my own eyes on it, but it doesnt have the oiler cut.
The rear sight a Williams adjustable sight, but from the pics posted it looks like some put some effort into removing
the original flip sight. The rear of the receiver looks pretty beat up.
The front band has been replaced with a bayonet band and there is good park left on the barrel.
I'd imagine if took this thing down she'd be just a mess of a mixmaster.

There is some horse trading he wants to do for this but I gotta know a reasonable price on putting this
back in GI condition first. If I walk from it no big deal.

Thanks again

Raggs

From this description I wonder why you would even bother with it? Spend a few xtra bucks and buy a decent carbine. In the end you will be better off. You can never put it back to GI condition. (depends on what that means, I guess)

[Allen]

Somewhere I have one of those barrels for Canadian use. It's an Inland barrel cut down to about 15" with the last 3" or so lathe cut down to fit into the bore of another barrel. The muzzle end of the barrel ( about 7" or so) is a Rock-ola and bored out to it will fit over the lathe cut of the Inland barrel. The 2 sections are pressed on to each other. There were a few discussions about this on the old Jouster forum years ago with many insisting that the 2 sections were welded together but that is not the case. It's just a tight tolerance swaged on fit. This is done to make a legal 19" barrel for Canada using existing surplus barrels at the time. This only leaves about 15" of rifling--the rest is bored out. If I could find it I would photo it but there isn't much to see.