Refinished 1913 Colt 1911 worth $3700?

[Steve(WA)]

Hi all.... like the title says, I am looking at a Colt that was redone by a renown restoration service. It appears gorgeous from the pictures, have not seen it in real life. I realize it has 0% original finish, but it is complete, matching and looks like it just rolled off the line. Is it worth that kind of money? Thanks all! Steve

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p504/steveffl/DSC_1067_zpso58bptkd.jpg (http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/steveffl/media/DSC_1067_zpso58bptkd.jpg.html)

[Sarge]

Since you seem to have an interest in this sort of thing - I have 20 acres in the middle of the Sahara desert for sale for only $500 an acre.

That price is "Only" about $3000+ to high.
Sarge

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks Sarge. What is a realistic price? 1913 matching Colts aren't that common, plus it was restored by Turnbull's Restorations, which can't be cheap. You think it is only worth $700? I have a little bridge I would like to sell you! ;>)

[Sarge]

IF you have an interest in and/or collect Non military reworked firearms than that is a nice one.
However IF you collect original items in "Original" condition than that pistol is a nice looking shooter! Its value is that of a non military reworked shooter = my original estimate.
Sarge

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks for the honest opinion Sarge. I am glad there are all different types of collectors. Makes the hobby more fun. My wife and I both are recent converts into WW1 history, as opposed to WW2, so I welcome the addition from that point of view.

[kxk]

"Is it worth that kind of money?"
Many things in life have flexible dimensions such as the price of an item at a garage sale.
Other things in life have fixed dimensions, such as the price of a most anything at Walmart.
The biggest differences between the garage sale and Walmart is that the items in Walmart
are new and are priced based on their cost of manufacture plus whatever profit that they
can tack on without killing sales. The prices of the items at the garage sale are usually based
on the seller's desire to get rid of the stuff before the sale is over. Occasionally a garage
sale will have some "Collectable" items that are popular enough by a large enough set of
collectors that prices for the items have established some "Norms" on places like Ebay and
in various collectors guides. The prices of these items are usually a lot more firm than regular
garage sale items, but the items seldom sell unless a collector who is interested in those
items just happens to stop by. Thirty years ago most collectors items were mostly sold
at specialty shows, in specialty shops, through dedicated specialty publications, or at
specialty auctions.
Today the internet has largely displaced shows, shops, and publications. Specialty auctions
have managed to merge with the internet and offer on-line live bidding through the internet
as well as live telephone bidding. In many cases, the on line and telephone bidding accounts
for the majority of the sales, at least for the high end items.
The prices that these collectable items sell for is generally related to the number of
collectors who want to own the item and how much each is willing to fork out in order to
get it. Some collectable items such as beany babies or bottle caps come and go as does
the wind. In many cases, these "Flash in the pan" items fade as fast as they rise because
collectors realize that the items have little lasting value and the original "flash" was
caused by gullible people being influenced by con-men selling cute junk.
Collectable items that have lasting power also usually have dedicated followings who
study the market and know what items that they specialize in sell for in the various
venues such as shows, shops, publications, auctions and internet sales.
It has recently become fashionable for on line auctions to sell expensive items with only tiny,
blurry, low resolution, or out of focus pictures. Reason would lead one to conclude that
most of these sales are to people who are beginners or are to people who like to gamble,
even if the odds are heavily against them.
However sales of high end collectable 1911 pistols are usually based on originality, rarity,
and condition. This is mostly because there are many original pistols in existance and
while there are many more messed with pistols than original pistols, few serious collectors
would waste their time and money on non-original messed with pistols.
When one asks "Is it worth that kind of money?" on an open forum that seems to specialize
in high end 1911 pistols, one should probably expect most of the answers to be slanted
toward original pistols and to expect lots of upturned noses at the mention of restored or
refinished pistols. Indeed, my own attitudes are pretty much in harmony with originality
at all costs, and if it is not original, it's a shooter thats worth a shooter price, and no apologies.

Best Karl

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks Karl. Appreciate the input. I was hoping for some practical guidance before buying/trading. I ended up trading a couple of (nice, but not rare at all) rifles and some cash. I think we were both happy. I have a large WW2 collection, and yes, I personally would never consider a "refinished" Garand or 1903. This caught my eye because it was so nicely done, and such a nice example of how an early Colt looked back in the day.

[kxk]

Steve, please don't take this criticism personally, but your last sentence "yes, I personally would never consider a "refinished" Garand or 1903. This caught my eye because it was so nicely done, and such a nice example of how an early Colt looked back in the day.", is what collecting these objects of history is all about, but you got it wrong. The refinished early Colt in question did not look that way back in the day. Indeed if you want to see what they looked like in their day just hold an original pistol beside the refinished one and if you look long enough and close enough (with a magnifier), you will see most of the subtle differences between them. Just as you learned (The hard way as most of us do with your Garands, carbines and 1903s,) the devil is in the details. I like to think that the mistakes I made (and I made plenty of them,) could be a learning tool for others. The refinished (Restoration) is a very attractive pistol, and if Colt or no one else ever made any 1911s, I might want one for my collection, but once you have an original in your hands and study it closely, you will be able to see most of the subtle differences. If you still like the restoration, I would be surprised.
Best Karl

[Steve(WA)]

Yes Karl, I still love it. Certainly more than the two modern rifles I traded for it. Other than two M1917s I have, it is my only WW1 piece. It was only refinished by Turnbull`s, so all other parts original. I don`t know why the original owner refinished it. Maybe the same reason people restore 1965 Mustangs. I have collected WW2 for many years, I traded with my eyes open. I was looking for some guidance from the forum, I got what I asked for. Like one of you said, from owners of high end 1911`s. I am sure I won`t ask such questions again.

[Scott Gahimer]

Hi all.... like the title says, I am looking at a Colt that was redone by a renown restoration service. It appears gorgeous from the pictures, have not seen it in real life. I realize it has 0% original finish, but it is complete, matching and looks like it just rolled off the line. Is it worth that kind of money? Thanks all! Steve

With all due respect, it may look good to you, but it doesn't look original...and that's because it isn't. Most properly restored pistols (vs. poorly refinished) I see for sale sell for about 20-30% of an original pistol in the same general condition. That's just a rough guideline, as a lot of things come into play.

Common pistols that are restored are on the low end of that estimate, and uncommon/rare variations are on the high end. And still, just because one guy will pay that, doesn't mean everyone will.

Edit: I forgot to add, Turnbull often replaces worn or incorrect parts with modern replacements. That, IMO, detracts from a quality restoration. Stocks, grip screws and other small parts that are not original typically stick out like a sore thumb to someone knowledgeable.

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks Scott. I don't pretend it's original. It just looks nice to me. I Googled the serial number and found some pictures of it pre-restoration. It wasn't drug behind a tank, but was pretty rough. Marked AA on the side, had some WW2 parts on it. I don't know who swapped out the parts to where it is now (appears all period), Turnbull's says they just applied the finish. There is definitely some restoration skill involved. Karl was talking about restorations and quoted me as talking about not buying a refinished WW2 gun. I should have been a bit more clear. I have avoided a lot of "refinished" guns over the years, buffed out and reblues, reparked in someone's tub, etc. Those are the ones I was referring to. To me this is a restoration instead of a refinish. Yes, I love the history of guns, and have a number of 1903s from back in the day, with different stampings on the stock as they moved through life in the military, etc. I love each of them for what story they could tell. The 1913 has a history, but to me at least I think of a USGI Soldier, pre-WW1 who probably held and fired it. And now it looks KINDA like it did when our young born in 1800's Soldier first held it. My regret with starting this post is asking about money. Since I traded a couple of AK type rifles for it, the money was really a non issue. I will know better in the future. I do appreciate everyone's comments.

[stan4]

I have a large WW2 collection, and yes, I personally would never consider a "refinished" Garand or 1903. This caught my eye because it was so nicely done, and such a nice example of how an early Colt looked back in the day.

Steve,

Nice picture of your 1913.

It looks like you might have experience with M1 rifles,---hope you can offer some advice on one. Know someone that is considering a 1940 M1. It looks all original(?)/correct, except the keystone op-rod spring. And the original stock does not have much of the original inspection stamps.

Is it even worth considering? If so, would you install a repo keystone op-rod spring, and/or have the stock re-stamped? Thanks.

Best Regards,

P.S. Here is another (nice pictures, and lots of details) 1913. https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14452063

[Steve(WA)]

Thanks Stan. The only guy I would ever look at on Gunauction (old Auction Arms) is "Jack the Dog". He usually has good stuff and takes amazing pictures. You know what you are getting. I am no expert by any means on the M1. I have a 1941 SA that is in nice shape. The earlier the gun, the more $$ of course. Condition is everything, in the 1911 world and every other world. I would jump on a 1940 gun in a minute if the price was fair. Just like 1913 Colt's, there are not a ton of them in every gun store. Good luck, let us know about the Garand. Also, post over on the Garand site. If you ask people about re-stamping the stock and such, you will get answers much like I got on the reconditioning of the Colt. I think it is a personal choice, as long is it isn't represented later as original.

[2111]

All I know is that Turnbull has been around quite a while and does a good business, so there are a lot of people that will pay for a weapon such as this. No one seems to have a problem with a restored 1955 Chevy. Do you really think a beat, never maintained "original" 55 Chevy is worth more than a 55 Chevy restored by an expert ? Sure an original Colt 1911 that is in the same condition as a Turnbull restoration is going to be much more desirable and worth a heck of a lot more, but not everyone has that kind of bucks.

[ignats]

Turnbull apparently does a fair amount of business as there a appears to be an endless line of people wanting a pristine example of an old gun...for whatever reason. They do a decent job, in fact too good. Look at their case hardening of receivers on old Winchesters. The color is just wrong. In short, I've seen a fair number of Turnbull's restorations pieces on the various auctions with the sellers boasting the work was done by Turnbull. The prices are too high and I've never seen one sell. In short you'll never get your money back out of one. Yes, I know, "I'll never sell this gun" comments are frequent with those guns, but really?

The comparison of restored cars comes up here every so often and there is no comparison. Lastly, a restoration like Turnbull does (AND I AM BY NO MEANS ACCUSING THEM OF FRAUD) can be just a way of making something into something it is not.