50-70 2nd Allin 1866 2 band trapdoor

[alfajim]

I have been looking at this gun on EBay and am in a quandry about it. It appears to be a original 1866 cadet modified or a original 2 band 1866 modified. It does not have a filler piece in the stock forearm and the bands are 20" apart. The flats on the stock have been sanded down and rounded like a 45-70 and the wrist looks to be thinner too. Stock is complete bands, springs, trigger assy. ram rod spoon, ram rod, it is the wrong one, nose cap no but plate.
41060410614106241063
Barrel is complete less breech block with hinge strap, extractors, rear sight, no front sight, tang, good bore, bore appears to be original SA sleeve but it is a 6 land and groove?
Right now all the pieces stock, barrel, lock assy. can be had for $300 would need another 100 to finish.

Will try to attach pictures.

[alfajim]

Here is some more of stock and barrel.410644106541066

[alfajim]

And the last ones.410674106841069

[Fred]

And the last ones.41068

As you can see, there are only Three lands and Three grooves.

[alfajim]

As you can see, there are only Three lands and Three grooves.

Yeah your right groves have to have two edges "little brain fart there" oops. Fred what is your opinion or feels about this gun?

Jim

[Kragrifle]

Interesting topic. The filler is present if the stock was from the later 1864 stock that had band springs. The 1863 musket stock lacked these springs and so no filler was required. There are arguments as to which might be correct on a Springfield produced two band second Allin. When you find the stocks with the flats removed and the wrists thinned down all agree this is a Bannerman produced piece that is far less valuable. Neat project, but I would hunt for the "correct" stock.

[Kragrifle]

If you can find an old J DeChristopher catalog he does the best job of describing a two band first Allin. That's what got me started on the two band Allin quest!

[alfajim]

I decided to pass on this and put the money to my on going 45-70 project, refinishing the parts, stock repair and finish and finish the repair on the new 84" barrel chamber repair. Welding done lathe work now and chamber bore.

Jim

[Fred]

Yea, good idea. Anytime the stock has been power sanded off on the edges of the lock mortise and all, the stock is not salvageable. Run away from this one!

[Dick Hosmer]

If you can find an old J DeChristopher catalog he does the best job of describing a two band first Allin. That's what got me started on the two band Allin quest!

That's an interesting gun. Have owned one for years - I think it is legit, but Al Frasca says no, based largely on the fact that the ramrod is not threaded. The 2-band 1866 has ALWAYS produced dissention, appearing as it does in a myriad of configurations - the only one of which that is "right" being the "Rifle, M1866, Short" of 1871. One of the anomalies is the rod length - it is set back like the 3-bander, not brought flush as in current production. Of course the 1867 Cadet is a completely different gun, and not a cut-down at all (and has a full-length rod unlike its' big brother).

[alfajim]

The stock sold for $115 the barrel is still avalable for $85 looks like and the 83 lock for $99 both show no bids.

Jim

[Dick Hosmer]

Any lockplate marked "1883", "I883", "1884", or "I884" is a Bannerman (etc.) POS. This fact is pretty widely understood, which probably explains the lack of bids.

[alfajim]

Any lockplate marked "1883", "I883", "1884", or "I884" is a Bannerman (etc.) POS. This fact is pretty widely understood, which probably explains the lack of bids.

Got ta watch those wild keyboards meant 1863 oop's.:icon_redface:

Jim

[Edatbeach]

If you can find an old J DeChristopher catalog he does the best job of describing a two band first Allin. That's what got me started on the two band Allin quest!

I agree with Al that this rifle is not a springfield Armory product. Not only is the rod not threaded, the barrel has been reduced in diameter for only the last 6 or 8 inches -- you can feel the change if you run your finger along the barrel. This is not SA quality, which would have tapered the entire barrel. Also, the the mode of adding a sling swivel to the front band is not SA quality. The bevelled interior crown to the end of the barrel is also atypical of any other SA product.