View Full Version : New member, Need help with1873 trapdoor carbine
Hello to all, I just purchased my first Springfield Trapdoor carbine, stamped 1873, looks more like 1978.
The serial number is 3803xx, it has a buffington rear sight, marked "R". It was referred to as a 1884 carbine. It does have the three-piece cleaning rod in the butt. I am confused about the 1873 stamp with the high serial number, whether it is a model 1873 or a model 1884, I believe it to be in very good condition.
Would it be worth the investment of changing the rear sight to the correct sight, which I am not sure what that would be. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Dick Hosmer
06-14-2017, 03:23
1873 blocks, of which they apparently made a gazillion, were used to exhaustion (ca. 1887) as there was NO physical difference. Since the powers that be considered the 1884 sight to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, it was slapped onto everything within their grasp. "Model 1884" when you reflect on it, was kind of a joke - nothing changed at that point except the sight, and it was so different as to be self-evident, needing no label. Don't have my books at hand so cannot check number, but the presence of an "R" sight is never a good sign. If the gun is a proper carbine, what happened to its' "C" sight, I wonder?
Dick,
Thank you for the reply, would the Buffington rear sight marked with the "C" be the correct sight?
Thank you
Gary
Only if you've bought a carbine and not a cut down rifle. Does it have a sling swivel on the trigger guard?
Has it got a snap hook bar and ring?
Dick Hosmer
06-14-2017, 08:18
Fred is correct - no reason to change sights until you're sure you have the real thing.
Fred,
I am sure this is an original carbine, there is no sling swivel on the trigger guard, yes to the bar and ring. This one also has the compartment with tools in the butt stock. I do not see any signs that the forend was tampered with, I will attempt to send some pictures. I just wasn't sure if the Buffinton site was the correct way to go.
Thank you for any and all advice you can give.
Gary
Fred,
I am attempting to sends some pictures.41207412084120941210
Fred,
I am attempting to sends some pictures.41207412084120941210
412114121241213
Fred,
Here are a few more, sorry about the duplicate post.
Gary
Gary, very nice looking carbine, pretty. By the serial number you listed 3803xx in the Poyer book it shows it to be built early (1st qtr.) 1887. So the buffington rear sight is correct but not with the R marked leaf. There is a vendor on E Bay with a correct marked carbine leaf for a buy it now of $75 so you could change yours out to make correct and it will make the sighting right also if the front sight blade is still original. Measure the height of the front blade it should be .328 above the surface of the barrel be .090 wide at the top with a small taper on each side to the top and a straight rear edge (third type).
I could not see the cartouche on the stock left side it should have a date and some initials in a rectangle box and a circle P on the bottom behind the trigger strap.
I recommend getting a copy of the Poyer 5th edition book has all the good info on the trapdoor and if you are going to shoot it for sure get a copy of Spence and Pat Wolfs book Loading Cartridges for the Original 45-70 Springfield rifle and Carbine.
It has all the loading data reloading dies and tools, ballistics, and how to use the sights.
If again you are reloading the dies, expanders, powder compression plug are available from Track of the Wolf. expanders and compression plug are Spence's design for the 45-70 trapdoor to duplicate the original one. To be used with Lee dies.
hope this is helpful
Jim
Jim,
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. The carbine leaf on EBay, is that the Sight Ladder (73-23G) with the
"C" marking? I measured the front sight, the top of the bottom base is .230, the top of the insert, the highest part of the front sight is .380, the top blade is .042 wide, I will attach a picture of the front sight and the only other markings on the stock behind the lower tang. I will make an investment in both books, I do some reloading but not for the 45-70, might as well do it right.
Thanks again, much appreciated
Gary4121641217
Looks like a Neat Carbine. Field replacement stock? Looks sharp! Got pictures of the left side cartouche stamp and the forarm's underside?
Fred,
Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "field replacement stock", there is no cartouche and here is a few more pics,
Thanks Again for the reply
Gary412184121941220
Jim,
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. The carbine leaf on EBay, is that the Sight Ladder (73-23G) with the
"C" marking? I measured the front sight, the top of the bottom base is .230, the top of the insert, the highest part of the front sight is .380, the top blade is .042 wide, I will attach a picture of the front sight and the only other markings on the stock behind the lower tang. I will make an investment in both books, I do some reloading but not for the 45-70, might as well do it right.
Thanks again, much appreciated
Gary4121641217
Gary yeah that is the one it is from Grandpas gun parts. Have bought from them before good to do business with. I would recommend that you get a spare main spring and stirrup both from them as they are new old stock and also get one of the 1879 tools for the best lowest price off the bay. Main springs do break and the pin on the stirrup breaks off mine did. Also a spare extractor the funny shaped pointed piece with the hole and top tang as they break too, mine did way back when makes it hard to remove cartridge have to use ram rod every time.
The front site stud is good but the sight blade appears to have been changed it is to tall so might have been done to get zero with the rifle rear. If you change the ladder then just trim down the front to correct height for the carbine rear. As nice as the gun is I highly recommend to get the c marked ladder for best originality and file down front.
If you feel you must a main spring vise is a good investment too but the 79 tool is a must to do any repair work on it.
Gary, when a stock was badly damaged in service, the company armorer would replace the broken stock with a new one. The replacement stocks had no "firing proof" (circled P) under the wrist. They also had no inspectors cartouche (within a box) stamped on the left side of the stock opposite the hammer.
Why the carbine has a Rifle's rear sight is a mystery to me.
Could be a former owner wanted to replace the original which was damaged and didn't know the difference between it and a rifle's sight. It happens. It sure wasn't put on by an armorer in the military.
Gary yeah that is the one it is from Grandpas gun parts. Have bought from them before good to do business with. I would recommend that you get a spare main spring and stirrup both from them as they are new old stock and also get one of the 1879 tools for the best lowest price off the bay. Main springs do break and the pin on the stirrup breaks off mine did. Also a spare extractor the funny shaped pointed piece with the hole and top tang as they break too, mine did way back when makes it hard to remove cartridge have to use ram rod every time.
The front site stud is good but the sight blade appears to have been changed it is to tall so might have been done to get zero with the rifle rear. If you change the ladder then just trim down the front to correct height for the carbine rear. As nice as the gun is I highly recommend to get the c marked ladder for best originality and file down front.
If you feel you must a main spring vise is a good investment too but the 79 tool is a must to do any repair work on it.
41225
Thank you for the information with regards to the stock issue, it all makes perfect sense.
Would you know what the meaning is of the number "74" and the two number 6 or 9's on
the bottom of the rear stock is.
Thank you
Gary I have a very nice 1884 breech block send me a PM if you are interested and we can discuss it.
Fred what is attachment 41224?
Do to circumstances way beyond my control I am going to have to s**l all the parts for the third trapdoor have everything except a stock and a ram rod as I was going to build an officers replica. barrel is a little rough on outside bore is perfect looks as if used very very little. Will need refinish on external. PM if interested.
Jim
Jim,
I wanted to thank you for all the advise, I have ordered a replacement buffinton "C" latter, new screws, etc.
I am all set for now, I will send you a pic when I get it installed.
Gary
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