It does make a difference group

[BudT]

Some reloaders don't mess around with a couple of tenths of a grain of powder, well it can make a serious difference.

41401

[bruce]

Agree. Working up a load is a step by step process. The last few steps ... often in 1/10's of a grain. The above target ... several strings of each load or one string with each load? Sincerely. bruce.

[aintright]

Good point Bruce , going to check a string on some loads I was working with in a T/C Venture Predator 308 . Went from 42 to 43 gr of IMR 4064 in .5 gr jumps . Might give some thing in between a try .
42 and 42.5 shot pretty tight , three shot groups running from .5" to .8" , first group on a clean barrel was inch and a quarter but then tightened right up .
Kenneth

[BudT]

Agree. Working up a load is a step by step process. The last few steps ... often in 1/10's of a grain. The above target ... several strings of each load or one string with each load? Sincerely. bruce.

Took a new load using Win 760 then changed the primer to a WLR standard and re-set my seating depth on the bullet and it changed to the top group, acceptable yes but not what I thought the rifle was capable of. I changed up by the 2 tenths in charge leaving everything else the same and bingo I hit a sweet spot. 5 shots in the lower group, my eyes are not as good as they were so when I crank out a good one I'm surprised and pleased. No repeats on the upper group but 2 more of the lower group confirmed the load. Both would go hunt.

[Sunray]

"...it can make a serious difference..." Yep. As little as .1 can matter.
42 of IMR 4064 is very close to the start load for most bullet weights. It is the start load for a 165. You really need to go up from the start load to the max load, then once you have the most accurate load at .5 increments, go back to the charge before that one and go up by .1. If you feel like it.

[JB White]

I haven't had that drastic a change between thrown/randomly checked charges and trickled/weighed charges. I reckon it depends a lot on a lot of factors. Rifle, cartridge, components...
While I could see a measurable difference, it usually wasn't worth the effort for Sunday paper punching. My powder trickler isn't going anywhere though.

[BudT]

I throw a light charge then trickle it up to the number. For me I do a load at the start then .5 grain all the way up the ladder till .5 under book max. I use the book recommended COAL, primer and my case and bullet. Somewhere along the line I find something that wants to shoot then I go into the 1-2 tenths of a grain thing, when I settle on the load I then start to mess around with the bullet jump or adjust to whatever shows best accuracy at the best velocity. It's always a compromise at some point but safety is always "first".

[Major Tom]

Since none of my reloads are any where near max. and since I don't shoot for dime sized groups; a scooped powder charge is OK with me. I do check the powder weight by scale every 10 rounds.

[Liam]

This is irritating, as the majority of electronic powder scales advertise their product as capable of "+ or - .1 grains" accuracy. Granted, I'm not steady enough to realize super accurate groups, but I feel I am handicapping myself at the bench with my little RCBS Rangemaster 750, which tends to wander within minutes of having turned it on. Constantly having to re-zero the thing.

[BudT]

I use a balance beam scale, I have no intention of up grading to a electronic scale. A RCBS 5-10 to be exact, bought it used a few years ago.

[JB White]

Beam scale here too. Lyman 1000. I don't recall but it's probably somewhere around 30 years old. Haven't had to change a battery ;)

[snakehunter]

I use a balance beam scale, I have no intention of up grading to a electronic scale. A RCBS 5-10 to be exact, bought it used a few years ago.

I feel the same way. I wouldn't use an electronic sale if I got it free. I also use an RCBS which I got 25-30 years ago.

[bruce]

Have a couple of RCBS 505 beam scales. Have a RCBS Rangemaster. Both types are excellent. The Rangemaster is faster/easier to use. Have used the beam type since 1980. Have used the Rangemaster since 2014. It is a matter of what one prefers to use. THe scales are equal in performance/function. For my purposes, the Rangemaster is easier and quicker to use. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[RED]

I don't know, but I don't think that .2 grs are going to consistently make that much of a difference... .2 grains is .00454% of 44. Back when Dillon started testing his progressive presses, he was able to demonstrate again and again, that at the bench-rest matches a thrown charge was equally as accurate as a weighed charge. My RCBS measurer is probably plus or minus, .25-.30 grains. I throw 10 charges and weigh 1 at random and that works for me. But, a .25 MOA difference in accuracy is totally meaningless to me. A whitetail at 200 yards is dead, but a whitetail at 400 yards is safe from me because I would not take the shot.

My longest ever kill shot on a deer was a measured 433 yards and that was 25 years ago. Back then I would take risks and almost every deer was a head shot. I figured in the head he's dead, no tracking needed. That was until I spent a entire day trying to find a deer that was missing his lower jaw. I shot him just after dawn and found him at dusk. He was in a pond trying to drink when I put him out of misery. Since then every deer I have taken went less than 50 yards. I have killed deer with a 7mm Mauser, a 8mm Mauser, a .257 Bob, a 25-06, .308 but mostly a 30-06.

Just my $ 0.02.

[snakehunter]

Sorry Red. I've got to disagree. .2gr +/- of powder makes a significant difference in accuracy in my 223. Whereas it makes a lot less difference in my '06. In the 223, 25,4 gr of 748 with a 50gr Nosler and a Rem 7 and 1/2 BR primer gives me groups averaging .20 moa If I go up or down by .2 gr, the groups open up considerably. Up .2 gives me .35 moa and down .2 gives me .48. In my '06, my accuracy load is 55gr 760 behind a Sierra 165gr Game King with a CCI 200 primer. That load gives an average group of 1.16 moa. At 54.8gr the average group is 1.23and at 55.2 it's 1.32
..;

[bruce]

Re: Head shots. Agree. Have been hunting steady since 1980. Have killed my own deer and on some occasions finished off deer that other folks shot poorly. There are folks that can pull head shots consistently. Guess I'm just not that sure. Whatever the angle, I try to put the shot through the heart/lungs. So far ... have not ever had a deer ever stand up after such a hit. I never shot anything at 400 yds., but have shot a good bit of stuff out to 180/200 yds. The .30-06 w/ good 150 gr. bullets has been instant lights out for everything. Up until last year, every deer was shot with a military surplus rifle using iron sights ... and that includes those that were close and those that were in out a couple of football fields away. Finally had to go to a scope ... so got myself a Remington 03-A4 replica. Dropped a nice doe jumping over a fence at 130 yds.... dead when she hit the ground. Good rifle! Sincerely. bruce.

[noslack327]

I use both, A electronic scale and a triple beam scale, the electronic is faster.

[jon_norstog]

I use an RCBS scale and trickler. I tend to load pretty hot, looking for that combination of accuracy and knock-down power, mainly in my 30-40. I do the same with the 7 mag, but it seems less fussy than the Krag. Both guns group just fine at the distances I use them. Neither of them will win a bench rest competition, but maybe that's me. The BP gun is really consistent .. it's my baCKUP.

jn

[BlitzKrieg]

Gents,

I bought the RCBS Chargemaster, it can vary .1 grain time after time, IE..43.5 set on the machine...43.5, 43.4, 43.6 can be charges that fall out of that setting. Does this matter ? Well heck yes and maybe not so much. I say this as I have retired this machine because for group accuracy at any distance 300 yds and out to 1000 yds, it matters but if you are shooting a NRA bullseye with huge scoring rings, maybe the loads with such variance matters nothing for "score" at 600 yds and below...it will matter if you are shooting F Class at 800 to 1000 for "score". It matters not if you are shooting a E Silhouette man size target at 600 yds and below...it matters tons if you are shooting that E Silhouette at 800 to 1000 yds.

What kind of accuracy are you seeking...tiny groups (extreme accuracy), scores or "hits on a man" and how far is your distance. Its all good whatever your answer.

That all said, I use a US made Ohaus mfg 1010 balance beam and I have a magnifying glass rigged up so I can really see that pointer on the scale...and I trickle till that charge is "exact". Real easy and fast..drop charge from measure, put on scale and trickle if needed to charge desired.

I use 4064, Varget and RL 15 mostly and its problematic on how it drops (charge weight) from my measure so I won't use anything out of the measure for any load I make...I want the charge to be exact. This pays off for me. However ...take CFE 223 ball powder (which is crap beyond 600 yds), it drops out of measure 99% of the time right on the charge weight and I'd not worry about loading cases right out of the measure for use 600 yds and shorter range.

What is the mission ? That drives the ammo you need to make and the more exact your powder charge the more consistent your loads will perform. Variables enter into accuracy results so I try to eliminate any variable.

My father told me: if you are going to reload, you make the best ammo you can. He is correct and I follow that advice but I am not saying anyone is wrong for making ammo "adequate" to the task / mission he needs the ammo to perform to.

Parting shot: I got tons of loads that shot 3 rds touching at 100 yds (loads many would find just fine for their level / distance of shooting) and fall apart at 300 yds. My acid test is : Does the load hold accuracy at 300 yds and if it does, its a good chance it will do my mission on out to 1000 yds.

[BlitzKrieg]

I use both, A electronic scale and a triple beam scale, the electronic is faster.

I did a test loading 100 rounds with electronic scale and 100 rds with charges on my balance beam. It was 15 minutes time difference for me. The electronic scale can "wander" and I don't trust it and you really got to put in a ton of money to get a electronic scale that is sure fire reliable exact. Your RCBS/Hornady/Dillon electronic scales do vary and are less "exact" time after time than my balance beam.

Now...15 min may make a difference to you but for me...Cost me as much to make a imperfect round as a near perfect round so 15 min more time with the balance beam is fine with me.

As stated: I have the electronic scale and the RCBS ChargeMaster rig....they have their "warts" and they may be Good Enuff for 99% of reloaders. Since I own the machines and find them less wonderful, I own up that i chased technology, paid for it and found it less wonderful than old school balance beam scales.

If I think there is a rainbow to chase on better gear, I'll chase that rainbow but I don't find much gold ...as I look at the rain forest of reloading presses here, I don't find much difference: Dillon 650, Dillon 450, RCBS Rock Chucker (1969 era), Herters Super "O', Lee classic turret, Lee turret, RCBS A2 mega press circa 1964, Forster Co Ax (got two of them).

However on scales...my gold is balance beam scales. I see that difference so I use it.

Why does a guy own two Co Ax presses....I'm working that hard ...the answer escapes me.

[JB White]

I no longer have my Lee Turret presses. They were fine for cranking out 3-400 rounds of 38 special or 45 acp for an evening at the local range. That was a while back. I wasn't all too impressed with them. The slack reared it's ugly head when doing tougher chores. The "bolt-on" feeds and powder dispensers left a lot to be desired as well.
Now I just use the old Lyman O-Mag and a Lee O-frame press (forgot the sales name...Challenger...Classic? The heavy one.) That one is for my 1 1/4" dies of which I only need to crank 25-50 rounds at a time. The Lyman doesn't have the 7/8 - 1 1/4 insert like the RCBS and a couple others do. It does however handle any case forming I need with ease.

My reloading habits have changed. Instead of making up a lot of rounds from start to finish, I prep all my brass shortly after using. Then when I want some more after my stockpile gets low I just make up some batches at my leisure. Time I can make since retiring, and since retiring I haven't worn a wristwatch. I don't even have a dedicated reloading bench anymore. I needed the extra room in my shop. The gear and components are all stored neatly in large Rubbermaid tubs.