View Full Version : 30-06 Military Blank Brass
psteinmayer
08-02-2017, 05:41
While shopping in Vender's Row during the National Matches at Camp Perry a couple weeks ago, I purchased around 400 rounds of once fired Lake City brass. While decapping the brass, I discovered around 20 various pieces of Blank brass. Most is Lake City, but there are also a few Saint Louis, a Rockford Arsenal, and a WCC too. I assume that these are from Grenade Launcher blanks (except one)... but that's really an assumption. Please see the picture below.
My question is this: Can this blank brass be sized and loaded to shoot bullets, or is the brass too week. I recall hearing something a few years ago about blanks being made from rejected ball brass because they don't see the same pressures as live rounds... but I might have misunderstood that. I'm happy to toss them in the scrap bin... but if the brass can be resized and loaded, I'll just toss them in the cleaner instead!
41594
Griff Murphey
08-02-2017, 08:12
You can reload the M1909 ones which had the card wad in the end. You will need to get a curved beak pliers from a dentist or orthodontist friend to get enough of that bell off of the front end so the de capping rod can get into it without peeling it down. Or wrinkling it.
I know this because I pried out the card wads and dumped the powder out of quite a bit of it when our Pershing Rifle frat took the wrong ammo (we had M-14s) to a maneuver on a ranch. The faculty sponsor (Major) with us wanted to bury it. Would not let me have the live blanks. Over the years I have reloaded a couple of hundred pieces of it. The major knew I was a gun nut and allowed me to save the primed brass.
Personally if all you have of it is 20 rds. I would just toss it.... and I would not even try to use the star crimped modern blanks - old ww2 50's ones were probably grenade launcher blanks. You know the dates... Stuff before 54 might gave some corrosive residue. Clean em.
I was just trying to save 500 or so primed cases. Academically yes it can be done but for 20 rds??
Is there a concern about the safety of the brass? Let me say I mainly loaded reduced power ammo with it. Would not use it for hot loads or match ammo. It's a grade II component.
psteinmayer
08-03-2017, 02:06
I don't normally load hot anyway... Nosler 168 gr HPBT Match bullet over 44.0 grains of H-4895 and a CCI #34 primer. I shoot this out of both my Garand and 1903A3. I'll toss the star crimped case anyway cause it's pretty crappy looking. The rest didn't look too bad which why I even considered it.
The original specification for the M1909 blank ammunition calls for the use of standard .30-06 cases to be used in the production of the M1909 blanks. I reminder reading that in WWII factory seconds can be used for production of M1909 blank. I guess in war nothing goes to waste. I don't use the fired blanks that used corrosive priming. For the obvious reasons. If I find unfired M1909 blanks I remove the powder and primer and reload as new ammunition. I have tried several methods to remove the crimp for the cardboard wad. The best and quickest is using a Lee tampered decapping pin in your .30-06 sizing die or Universal Decapping die. This easily takes out the crimp without damaging the mouth and neck of the case. I then trim the case to size. The later M1909 cases with the star crimp I just throw them in my conversion bucket for conversion to 8mm Mauser brass.
--fjruple
S.A. Boggs
08-03-2017, 07:50
Years ago I purchased several thousand @ a penny each packed in Garand clips in ammo cans and so marked with the same though. Using a magnifying glass I checked the bases and found too many crack's. I did load what I thought were good ones for my 03 using the standard loading. The majority had problems upon firing, split necks mainly. My body parts are more valuable then saving a few cents when good brass is available.
Sam
psteinmayer
08-03-2017, 08:09
Well, I have over 400 rounds of LC brass to play with anyway... So I think in the end, I'll just toss em!
It has been the practice of the military to use rejected brass from production to make blanks. As there is really no pressure to speak of for a blank a bad case can be used. But it should not be used to load regular ammo. When rejected cases were low, they used once fired brass and reloaded it for the blanks. Cases were rejected for blemished brass to cracks in non important areas. This practice was done for 30-06 and I am pretty sure for 7.62. I would assume they would also do it for 5.56 too but I don't know for sure.
Griff Murphey
08-03-2017, 04:57
It has been the practice of the military to use rejected brass from production to make blanks. As there is really no pressure to speak of for a blank a bad case can be used. But it should not be used to load regular ammo. When rejected cases were low, they used once fired brass and reloaded it for the blanks. Cases were rejected for blemished brass to cracks in non important areas. This practice was done for 30-06 and I am pretty sure for 7.62. I would assume they would also do it for 5.56 too but I don't know for sure.
7.62 blanks have an extra long gooseneck case almost the length of a complete round with bullet. This facilitated function in the M-14, M-60, and M-73 coax mg. this would necessitate a large amount of metal smithing. Any rejection of .30'o6 brass was probably on the basis of highly arbitrary inspection, ("HEY BOB, we need to run another 80,000 rounds of M1909!") it is unlikely anyone was looking at them under magnifiers. At worst they were rejected for slightly off center flash holes..
I think anyone trying some of the stuff on this forum needs to be cautious and use their own judgement. I loaded some very bad ammunition I still have not fully sorted out after trying Pam as a case lube back during the craziness when I could not get One Shot. Probably my technique was ham handed - I am sure it works for the guy who wrote it up but it fudged up for me.
They didn't reject cases for off centered flash holes. I have reloaded many a 30-06 case from WW2 ammo that had off centered flash holes. I have seen a short film of women inspecting cases before loading at the plants so eye inspection was common.
psteinmayer
08-04-2017, 05:48
The majority of Lake City I have have off-center flash holes. Not sure how true this is... But I seem to recall reading that cases with off-center flash holes are from machine gun ammo lots.
The majority of Lake City I have have off-center flash holes. Not sure how true this is... But I seem to recall reading that cases with off-center flash holes are from machine gun ammo lots.
I purchased thousands of LC 30/06 MATCH pull down cases from Pat's reloading in Ohio. Every case had a flash hole that was off center. If reloaders were familiar with case artifacts they would have noticed a seller on EBay was selling 8mm57 cases formed from 30/06 blanks. That was 12+ years ago. I purchases two belts of blank cases that were loaded from once fired cases in Yonkers, NY. Each case was marked.
F. Guffey
"...Grenade Launcher blanks..." Not necessarily. Regular M1909 training blanks look like that too. There are all kinds of aftermarket, civilian made, and M-1999 blanks with the "star" crimp like that found on 7.62NATO and 5.56Nato training blanks. The latter case neck is usually too short to trim into a live round case.
Grenade Launch cartridges are not for use as training blanks either.
"...rejected cases were..." NOT used for producing blanks of any kind.
According to DOD documents the use of rejected casing was what were to be used for the making of blanks for 30-06. Now when there were not enough cases that had been rejected then fired cases were to be used. It was not unusual to open a case of blanks and find WW2 dated brass along with brass from the 50's and 60's.
Now when there were not enough cases that had been rejected then fired cases were to be used. After the case is fired it become an ejected case. Again, I purchased two belts of blanks, all of the cases were marked, there had to be a reason for marking the cases. My opinion, they were magnificent cases.
F. Guffey
http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=introduction-to-30-06-cartridges
F. Guffey
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.