View Full Version : 1866 Not-A-Repro
GrizzlyDW
08-10-2017, 05:11
Hey fellas, I recently purchased this 1866 Trapdoor at an auction. It was listed as a replica in .45-70, but that's probably not the case! It's definitely .50-70. Thought I'd share a few photos with folks. It's my first Trapdoor. The firing pin is jammed and filed down, though, I'll need to scrounge some parts and fix it up! And find .50-70 ammo? What do you all think? Pretty neat, huh?
GrizzlyDW
08-10-2017, 05:14
And a few more photos, of the breechblock and lock. You can see what I'm saying with that firing pin here.
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Dick Hosmer
08-10-2017, 06:57
Again, welcome to the world of trapdoors!
Still have NO idea why you ever would have thought that was a repro, but, a word of caution; you have some strange colors there and I'm thinking it may have been in a fire. That is borne out by the fact that I do not believe I have ever seen a more severely sanded stock, possibly to remove char. The profiles around the lock are all gone, and the area around the buttplate is gone to a depth of perhaps 1/4" or more.
Also, the cleaning rod is from a Model 1870 at the earliest. It is about 4" too short and has a retention method first used in 1868. I understand that you did not pay a great deal, and that one may be best left on the wall as a decoration. I'd get some further info/help from a professional gunsmith before I ran out and spent a lot of money on parts, OR even considered shooting it.
Fortunately, to see the issues you are facing, just take a look at Fred's post above yours. That is an above-average specimen of an 1866 to be sure, and comparing pics will give you an idea what i'm talking about. Sorry that pics cannot be posted on Al's website.
GrizzlyDW
08-10-2017, 07:49
Gadzooks! Thanks for all the information and speculation on it. I sure do appreciate it, lots to think about, for sure.
No, I never thought it was a reproduction, that's just what the auction house had it listed as... Hmmm....
Dillon, I'm curious about how much the seller wanted for that? What kind of a place did you buy that from?
Maybe you can get your money back from him by saying that it was sold to you as a 45-70, but it was actually in 50-70?
If that's an original, looks like it may have been refinished, it'd be far too valuable to shoot. However, Buffalo Arms sells BP .512", cast, 425 grain ammo at $62.39 per 20.
This guy lists firing pins at $15 each.
http://www.granpasgunparts.com/model-1866-5070
You may want to rummage around here too.
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/
There's nothing valuable left on this rifle. If it hasn't been in a fire, then you have, with No original finish, a barrel, butt plate and screws, trigger & guard and screws, lock and screws, barrel, breech plug and tang, receiver, cam latch & screw, firing pin retaining screw, barrel bands and springs, swivels & screws, a nose cap, the two receiver springs & screws for extraction and ejection and a cleaning rod from a late model 1870 or an early 1873 trapdoor rifle. The breech block might be salvageable. The firing pin and the bushing are trashed. The firing pin spring is probably still in there and is just compressed.
Now add up what these parts would bring in really good shape and cut the price in half or even more. Practically ZERO value if they've been in a fire.
Dick Hosmer
08-10-2017, 10:11
If that's an original, looks like it may have been refinished, it'd be far too valuable to shoot. However, Buffalo Arms sells BP .512", cast, 425 grain ammo at $62.39 per 20.
This guy lists firing pins at $15 each.
http://www.granpasgunparts.com/model-1866-5070
You may want to rummage around here too.
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/
Let's stick with the already established facts: it IS an original, it HAS been (severely) refinished, and is nowhere NEAR "too valuable to shoot"!!!
The only question, short of getting a refund is, is it SAFE to shoot.
I agree that there is something odd about the look of the rifle. Stock had been sanded for sure, maybe to make it "pretty". Someone tried real hard to get that collar out of that breech block and gave up. The 1st 1866 I ever purchased had a broken firing pin and badly damaged collar. Took me forever to get that thing out. Pins are easy to find on eBay. Had to order the collar from Al Frasca. I would have a knowledgeable gunsmith look it over before attempting to fire it.
GrizzlyDW
08-12-2017, 10:53
Morning, gents. I took it to the auction house yesterday and argued with their people for a bit to take it back. Since it was listed as a "firing modern reproduction in .45-70," and it's definitely a "non-firing highly-refinished original in .50-70," they saw reason relatively quickly and agreed to give me my money back. Generally, their firearms guy seemed to know what he was doing, but I guess their firearms guy gave it to another to write up the description? Kind of sounds like they had intended to sell it as a non-firing replica, but someone goofed on the description. Their accountant was out for the weekend so I get to go back on Monday to trade it back. Whew!
I wonder what they'll list it as next time, since I got to inform them about what they really had. I also want to sincerely thank you guys for the crash course on M66 Trapdoors this week :-)
Good for you! :1948:
You said "trade it back", are you then trading it for another item?
GrizzlyDW
08-12-2017, 03:56
Oh, I suppose I just meant take it back, not trade. A trade of green paper rectangles :icon_lol:
Heck, now you can put that money towards a legitimate and collectible rifle. The very best deals on trapdoors I've ever seen has always been from Al Frasca. He's also forgotten more than I'll ever know on the subject, and I've been messing around with Trapdoor Springfield's for over 45 years. Another fellow that has written some impressive books on Trapdoors and who is also one of THE experts along with Al is Dick Hosmer.
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/
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