View Full Version : Opinions on .357 mag snubbys
I am not into handguns, only have a few old military collectors. I have decided to buy a 2" snub in 357 mag. It will mostly live in my nightstand, but I do have a license to carry, so it will be taken out for a walk on occasion.
I have come down to 2 choices. One is a pristine blued Dan Wesson Model 15-2 with wood grips from the late 70's. The other is a new S&W Model 686-6 stainless with rubber grips. The collector in me goes for the DW, since I do not expect to shoot very much if at all, but I need advice.
Thanks
I purchased a new Dan Wesson revolver in the early 80s. It had a light trigger from the factory and the more I shot it the lighter the trigger became. The trigger wore so much that pressure on a cocked hammer would cause the hammer to fall. MIM parts were used and I believe the composition or heat treat of the parts was off. I am a big fan of S&W revolvers and for heavy use the 686 is hard to beat. For your purpose I would look for a Model 19 or 66. They are a little smaller than the 686.
Dan Wesson revolvers had a reputation for being extremely well made and accurate. For a snub, I'd probably opt for the S&W 686. The little bit of extra weight out front will be appreciated the first time you touch off a dose of .357 S&W Magnum happiness. Little pocket rocket like that ... it's going to jump up a little bit. You'll appreciate the slightly heavier frame. And there are simply more options available for the S&W 686 L-frame in terms of stocks, holsters, etc. Sincerely. bruce.
blackhawknj
09-29-2017, 07:57
Dan Wessons are hard to come by because those of us who have them, keep them.
Johnny P
09-30-2017, 05:33
If, as you say, you are not into handguns I would reconsider making a .357 snubby my first handgun, especially a carry gun. The recoil is on the violent side with a short barrel, and too heavy to carry comfortably. While you can shoot something as mild as a .38 wadcutter in them, no need to pack all the extra weight around for a carry gun. There are lots of small .38 Special revolvers on the market, as well as excellent defensive ammo for them.
I know there are those that can conceal carry a five pound handgun so comfortably that they forget they have it, but it just never happened for me. Shop around before you decide.
I think I have been swayed. There was a 2" S&W Model 10-5, 38spcl, in perfect condition. I discounted it as I was looking for a 357. Now that I have some input, and have also given it more thought....I am on my way to get the 10-5 @ $475. It seemed like too much money, but condition being what it is, and the collector in me (It is C&R eligible), make it the choice.
Thank you all for the great input
$475 for a early 60s 2" Model 10 isn't too bad considering the premium for the 2" barrel and perfect condition. The last batch of police turn in 4" Model 10s were selling for over $300 and they had some wear to the finish.
Fred Pillot
10-02-2017, 06:10
I have a Taurus model 85 5 shot .38 Special. Has a 3 inch barrel. I really like the proportions with the 3 inch barrel.
Picked up my new friend....
The first revolver I was issued when I went to work for the 'gubmint was one of these, very nice guns.
In the old days the most effective ammo for these guns was a lead semi wad cutter but there are new .38 special ammo choices that expand very reliably out of these short barrels and will make your new buddy more effective if the balloon goes up. Two of the best are the Speer 135 gr. GDHP +P Short Barrel and the Remington 125 Short Barrel. These loads are snappy but won't hurt your revolver with occasional use and are about as good defensive ammo as you can get in this caliber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khazbS9pWjE
Thanks to all for the great input, really helped.
blackhawknj
10-03-2017, 02:07
An excellent find. Jeff Cooper noted all the Magna need a long runway to get up to speed, Skeeter Skelton was initially enamored of the 2.5" M-19, later changed his mind, he cited muzzle blast and flash, found the 4" M-19 no harder to conceal. If I want to fire a short barreled .357 one of my Dan Wessons does nicely.
An excellent find. Jeff Cooper noted all the Magna need a long runway to get up to speed, Skeeter Skelton was initially enamored of the 2.5" M-19, later changed his mind, he cited muzzle blast and flash, found the 4" M-19 no harder to conceal. If I want to fire a short barreled .357 one of my Dan Wessons does nicely.
All true, but a .357 Magnum from a "snubby" " is a heck of a lot hotter than any .38 Special from any barrel length. My principle carry gun is a S&W 640 in which I carry 110 gr Remington .357 Magnum semi jacketed hollow points. This load is a proven fight stopper. I have personally chronographed these at 1250 fps from the 2 1/8" barrel on this little revolver. Not only is this low lend Magnum load from my snubby superior to any .38 special load it is equal or superior to 9mm +P from a full size pistol with a 4" or 5" barrel. Now recoil and muzzle blast in this revolver are very sharp but I've send so many magnums down range it doesn't matter much to me.
The great thing about a Model 19, or any .357 Magnum is the ability to customize your loads from the mildest wad cutters to the hottest belchfire magnums, so you can tailor your carry load to your particular needs.
noslack327
10-05-2017, 07:25
I like my 2.5 inch Model 19 RB easy to carry not hard to control.
Picked up my new friend.... THAT is a fine looking snubnose! Load it up with any decent .38 Special load and it will most assuredly get the job done! Price? In my area, if you can find a nice snubnose revolver like that for that price, try not to break your arm getting your wallet out of your pocket! Sincerely. bruce.
I've had a few snubs over the years. They are great for carry however, I never was very accurate with any of them. Had the Smith Model 642 which was an airweight and great for carry, but not fun to shoot because of recoil. I really liked the stainless Smith Model 640 with the concealed hammer but again, the recoil was painful especially when shooting magnums. My latest snubby, if it can be called that, is a Ruger SP 101 w/3" bbl. The SP 101 is also a 5-shot revolver and it's size can best be described as in between a Smith J and K frame. Heretofore I have never been a fan of Ruger revolvers however, I think that they have hit a "home run" with their SP 101 line. It is a good size for concealed carry and with it's added weight and bull barrel can comfortably handle +P .38 rounds and most magnums; it also is quite accurate especially with the 3" tube. YMMV.
Dan Shapiro
10-08-2017, 04:05
Carried a Model 66 while working plain clothes, years ago. Not bad on the range with target loads. Full-on .357 load, forget it - muzzle blast and recoil. On one occasion, had to fire a 'night course'. After the 1st round, couldn't see a thing.
blackhawknj
10-08-2017, 06:22
Always thought Charlie Askins defined the role of the snub best-a belly gun. "You press it against your enemy's belly and..."
Darreld Walton
12-19-2017, 05:25
A 2.5" barreled .357 mag? I suppose that if you miss an opponent, the muzzle blast and flash would stun a bad guy long enough that you could trot over and bust him in the forehead with it.
I have 357's but only fire 38 specials through them for practice due to the loud sharp blast that is death defying to the ears. For personal protection though the 357 would be preferred of course. I have a S&W 29 and 629 both 6", easier on the ears but a bitch to conceal in a shoulder holster. Clint Eastwood makes it look so easy.
Mike in NC
07-06-2018, 08:43
I just picked up a S&W blued 19-7 with a 2.5 inch barrel. I like the heft of the steel frame but haven't shot it yet. I was advised that a hot 38 special round may be the way to go with this short barrel.
JB White
07-07-2018, 09:32
Look into the 38 special, 158 gr LSWC HP in a +P loading. Also known as the old Metro Load or Chicago Load. At close range it's close enough to the 357 in performance yet it doesn't have the sharp, cracking report of a jacketed .357.
If you carry the 158 gr. LSWCHP in a snub nose revolver I recommend the Remington variety. It is very soft lead and has a bigger hollow cavity than the other brands. Expansion can be iffy with this load out of snubbies so with the LSWCHP give yourself the best shot (sincker.) I carry the 158 gr. LSWCHP in my 4" barrel .38s in which it remains, after almost half a century, one of the best options available but today there are hollow points that are made specifically for short barrel revolvers. The Remington 125 gr. Short Barrel and the Speer 135 gr. Short Barrel hollow points both will work very well indeed in in "snubbies."
Here's a little video on the subject shooting 125 gr .38 + P hollow points against the very hot Remington 125 gr. SJHP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27wDLjY5JSs
JB White
07-11-2018, 05:22
Interesting vid Art. Thanks for putting that up. I reckon I was/am a wee bit behind the times when it comes to the 125's. Good things to know for future reference. Including your remark about the 158's. Remington...and I'm stocked with Winchester. :)
There are a few things I still feel comfortable with. Heavy that hits like a freight train rather than high speed that penetrates like an ice pick. (I think those type of comments came about 40 or 50 years ago?)
Use a load which doesn't rupture ear drums in confined spaces which includes standing near walls. (gangways, alleys, along side parking garage walls etc.)
I also liked Massad Ayoobs advice. In the event of a demonizing prosecutor, use what the police use. That means factory loaded. That "police" advice is what steered me back to the Chicago Loads after I had been talked into using those "vicious and evil looking" Golden Sabres.
Best advice I ever got was to use what's comfortable, second nature, with enough to get the job done. That requires slight tradeoffs at times but the parameters should always be in place.
barretcreek
07-12-2018, 04:14
Let me add something. Friend who tunes my Smiths is a very accomplished competition shooter. He has replaced the detestable lock on my 629 Yogi disuader with a plug so it cannot lock up at the worst possible moment. And for those of us who live the states not yet under communist domination, note Smith makes several J-frames without the lock for just that reason. Either buy one so equipped or get it done. His 617 seized up on him.
and I'm stocked with Winchester
JB,
If that is the same load I'm thinking it is, it is an excellent load. I heard it called the "Treasury Load". Developed by Winchester specifically for short barrel revolvers for use by Federal agents. Testing at time by NRA in ballistic gelatin revealed they would consistantly expand to over .60". Dead soft lead. After 2 cylinders shot during practice and it is time to get out the Lewis Lead Remover! It is no longer produced. I have one full box and a partial one left. Six rounds are sitting in my model 19 right now.
FWIW,
Emri
JB White
07-13-2018, 04:18
Emri, I don't think I have ever fired more than a couple or three cylinders in practice. Always shot up a box or two of homegrown 158 gr LRN or LSWC before running a few Winchesters down the tube. Burning up the ones that sat in the gun for a while then a few to make sure the rest were surviving well in storage. I wasn't aware they were no longer produced. Makes me wonder how long I've had them.
After 2 cylinders shot during practice and it is time to get out the Lewis Lead Remover! It is no longer produced.
Brownell's still has the Lewis Lead Remover in stock.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx
Brownell's still has the Lewis Lead Remover in stock.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/lead-remover/lewis-lead-remover-prod21587.aspx
Yes, they are. The "no longer produced" was in reference to the ammo. I just wasn't very clear. Thanks for the link though in case anyone else got confused.
Emri
Emri, I don't think I have ever fired more than a couple or three cylinders in practice. Always shot up a box or two of homegrown 158 gr LRN or LSWC before running a few Winchesters down the tube. Burning up the ones that sat in the gun for a while then a few to make sure the rest were surviving well in storage. I wasn't aware they were no longer produced. Makes me wonder how long I've had them.
You have had them quite a while! My partial box is from early 1980's. I did like you and would fire a few to make sure they were surviving OK. Got down to about 18 rounds and thought I would get some more. NOT!! Ten years ago during the big ammo shortage I was at a friends shop and he was going through all the bits and pieces of ammo from trade in guns and I saw a full box of them. I picked them up and said I wanted them without knowing what his price would be. I got them quite reasonably though.
FWIW,
Emri
JB White
07-14-2018, 03:05
The 80's.....I'm having one of those 'dang I'm getting old' moments
I just checked and Midway has three brands of the .38 LSWCHP in stock including the Winchester but not the Remington.
An outfit called Target Sports has the Remington. It's still out there. One of those vintage loads that's so good it refused to die.
This is an interesting vid. on snubby ammunition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ru1SldF5BM
A little disclaimer on "boutique" ammunition. It's expensive small batch stuff and is sometimes looked askance at by people like me who remember "Super Vel" and their quality control issues. I have shot Buffalo Bore .38 Super Automatic because it duplicates the original ballistics (1300-1325 fps. with a 125 gr. jhp.) The Buffalo Bore +P .38 special SWCHP duplicates the old .38 Special High Velocity designed for the old .38-44 N Frame Outdoorsman which is the direct ancestor of the .357 Magnum driving 158 gr. lead bullets at 1100 fps from a 4" barrel. These should only be used with modern firearms, obviously. I once shot some .38 Special H.V. from a Chief's Special. It was NOT fun.
Yes, I do like Paul Harrell videos.
Cosine26
09-18-2018, 09:19
I have a 2 3/4" Ruger stainless SS in which I use a max load of WW296 behind a 125 gr jacketed hollow point (Speer I think) and when fired it will literally lift the ear protectors off your head. I once belonged to a club that had a covered outdoor pistol range. We had one member who used to love to shoot his 4" 44 S&W Magnum to drive people off the pistol range. A cylinder full of 357's from my Ruger made him cry uncle.
JB White
09-20-2018, 01:53
Same load in a Magnaported 4" Ruger Service Six. Similar effect with H110. Guys thought I was shooting a 41 mag at first.
I did have one that would've made you cry uncle. 10" TC Contender in 223 Rem. Factory loads would not only make you shudder, but the muzzle flash was bright white and about the size of a 55 gallon drum. :)
Those factory & surplus loads were to see "What if....?" That was definitely a handloaded weapon when accuracy was called for.
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