Ken Burns Series on Fragging

[tmark]

I've been watching this series and paid particular attention to the topic of fragging in Viet Nam. IIRC, the series said some officers had disrespect to black soldiers as well as some officers pi$$ing off the troops with questionable orders.

The series mentioned that some upset soldiers threw a smoke grenade into the officer's tent. And if that didn't cause a change in the officer's attitude, a fragmentation grenade would be next.

I forget how widespread fragging was but I think it wasn't just one or two rare cases.

One soldier interviewed on the KB series mentioned a captain who remained in camp while ordering a patrol out into the field. The soldier said his patrol just went far enough out of site and then just squatted down pretending to be out on a distant patrol.

The Lt. Calley incident was totally disgusting to me and the commanding general of the outfit observed it in his helo and didn't do anything to stop it.

[fjruple]

My father was a First Sergeant on his second tour of duty in Vietnam 1969-1970. He was a "lifer" and had been in the Army since 1949. He had been shot at twice in back no less. The soldiers were probably to high at the time and missed on both occasions. I still have a .45ACP slug around here some place that he pulled out of the desk. He was fragged while he was sleeping in his hooch. Fortunately, for him he slept on extra flak jackets to protect him from an incoming mortar round. The flak jackets saved his life as most of the fragments were absorbed by the jackets. He carried some fragments in his legs until he passed on. The MP and CD would only do a report to HQ and no real investigation was conducted. He believes that the fragging was doing health and welfare inspections and confiscating illegal drugs the troops were using. He had told me he believes he knows who did it but could not proof it otherwise the individual would have been given a Purple Heart posthumously. After that tour he called it quits as the Army was turning to ***t from all of the bad apples that were being sent to Vietnam.

--fjruple

[p246]

My Dad told me this story recently and I think I got it down pretty well. Their first "TOP" on their fire base was a WW2 and Korean War veteran. He allowed them to only were bottoms no shirts during long hot days. He was mainly concerned about fighting efficiency and was not a by the book leader. He was replaced by another "TOP" that had spent his entire career in the US and Europe post WW2. He insisted on pressed bloused uniforms spit shined boots and was by the book. One night Dad was in the comm room when the TOP radioed in his hooch door was booby trapped. Dad and another E6 went and looked and could see wires leading from the door to a rice paddy. They summoned a couple guys that swept for mines on the main roads (Only type of EOD they had) They said it was a Claymore mine and confirmed the wires lead to a rice paddy. A rifle squad was summoned and they followed the wires. They found the end on the rice paddy dike connected to nothing. The mine sweepers policed up the claymore and life went on. This TOP stayed in his bunker the next few months, dropped the uniform requirements and the book. He never found out if it was Charlie or one of them.

[jon_norstog]

The years after the VN war I worked in construction. I was on a huge masonry rehab job, a 4-storey brick hotel that occupied half of a city block. One of the guys on the job, "Rustey" told me about his time in VN. he was his platoon's M-60 gunner. He said that when "THE COMPANY" decided that its CO was putting men in danger for no reason, they would get together and decide whether to "do" said officer or not. If it was decided that the officer had to go, Rustey was the guy who did the job. He told me he killed four COs and wounded a battalion commander, a colonel.

I gotta figure out how to watch that show - I don't have TV but can watch a DVD.

jn

[Vern Humphrey]

The years after the VN war I worked in construction. I was on a huge masonry rehab job, a 4-storey brick hotel that occupied half of a city block. One of the guys on the job, "Rustey" told me about his time in VN. he was his platoon's M-60 gunner. He said that when "THE COMPANY" decided that its CO was putting men in danger for no reason, they would get together and decide whether to "do" said officer or not. If it was decided that the officer had to go, Rustey was the guy who did the job. He told me he killed four COs and wounded a battalion commander, a colonel.

I gotta figure out how to watch that show - I don't have TV but can watch a DVD.

jn

Sounds like BS to me. For one thing, a battalion commander would be a Lieutenant Colonel, not a full Colonel.

[togor]

Sounds like BS to me. For one thing, a battalion commander would be a Lieutenant Colonel, not a full Colonel.

I wasn't there but I wonder about such things as people boasting after the fact about fragging their officer. Then again there was the very old Ukrainian guy who my brother ran into at a swimming hole in the Kettle Moraine State Forest near Milwaukee. He had been conscripted into the Wehrmacht in the latter years, into an AA battery, and their officer was killed during a raid by his own troops, who would have preferred the safety of a bunker. So some probably do live to tell.

[blackhawknj]

All sorts of bragging and boasting in the Army-it was amazing how many "studs" I met-on their them miserable GI pay.
The "Official" military profile of the 'typical" fragger describe him as a "loner". Closemouthed would be a better description-as Ben Franklin said:
"Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead."
And the grenade and the Claymore mine allowed for a great deal of anonymity.
One book I read said the death of a superior officer was a greater morale booster than cliaims of a dozen victories.
We had the worst leadership we ever had in Vietnam.

[Vern Humphrey]

I only personally know of one case of "fragging." This was a young rectum in an Engineer unit who wired an explosi9ve charge to a sergeant's personal radio. He left wires exposed, apparently deliberately, and the sergeant found it. I later asked the Engineer company First Sergeant, "What happened to that jerk?"

"He fell off a bridge truck. Seven times."

[alibi]

I was a Correctional Specialist (stockade guard) at Ft. Ord in 1971. I frequently was assigned to the front desk and exterior doors. Among the duties of the front desk NCOIC was registering visitors and arranging the visit of detainees. I was on duty the day Billy Smith (the subject of the attached "information" sheet) was processed into our facility. Smith had been brought to Ft. Ord for trial, because some of the witnesses had been discharged from the Army and it was more convenient to conduct the court martial stateside. Contrary to the statement on the handout Smith did receive visitors, in fact in order to expedite his visit the day I was on duty I allowed him three visitors at one time, when the protocol was two at a time. The correctional facility at Ft. Ord had no provision for "solitary confinement" although there were individual cells in a small area known as Segregated Quarters, that was primarily for detainees that for whatever reason required constant observation. I don't know that Smith was housed in segregated Quarters but it did not qualify as "solitary confinement."

Smith was charged with the homicide of three officers in Vietnam. The allegation was that Smith had a dispute with his company officers, and tossed a fragmentation grenade into the bunker that had been occupied by the company commander. Three officers not in Smith's unit had recently occupied the bunker and were all killed by the grenade. Shortly after the explosion, military police apprehended Smith and found a grenade pin in his possession.

At trial discharged soldiers testified that at the time of the detonation of the grenade they were with Smith smoking marijuana. Apparently based on the circumstantial evidence, and testimony of the witnesses, Smith was acquitted and discharged from the Army.

The attached copy of the information sheet was handed to me as I was driving into the entrance of Ft. Ord, and I kept it as a souvenir of the kind of nonsense people will dream up. Ft. Ord was also picketed by farm workers led by Cesar Chavez protesting the use of lettuce in the Ft. Ord mess halls, presumably picked by non-union workers, but that was another story.

42182

[RED]

I don't know about fragging, but I do know that our ejection seats were sabotaged... and we were not even in SE Asia, we were in the Med... We also had a instance where a E-2 Airman tossed a handful of nuts and bolts down the intake of an A-6 that was on the catapult with engines at 100%. It turned out he just wanted to be off the carrier and would prefer being in Leavenworth over being on the Saratoga.

[S.A. Boggs]

I don't know about fragging, but I do know that our ejection seats were sabotaged... and we were not even in SE Asia, we were in the Med... We also had a instance where a E-2 Airman tossed a handful of nuts and bolts down the intake of an A-6 that was on the catapult with engines at 100%. It turned out he just wanted to be off the carrier and would prefer being in Leavenworth over being on the Saratoga.
Did he make the trip, I thought the Navy brig was in New Hampshire.
Sam