View Full Version : NOTE in the room... the plot "thickens"
Former Cav
10-09-2017, 10:03
they claim the note on his night stand was ballistic caluculations!!
gimme a break, 371 yards away and wall to wall people and you "have to calculate".
He11, a blind man could have stuck any gun out the window and hit somebody.
This is so much B.S. probably used as a distraction to the fact that this guy was of islam and all of the sympathizers don't want to admit it.!
the deep Barrack Hussein Gov't strikes again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I smell a RAT, a big ******G rat
I agree, There is a smelly rat involved with this investigation! 2X isis said he was their boy!
The calculations may have been for the fuel storage tanks.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/05/las-vegas-gunman-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-during-shooting-spree-report-says.html
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/
The one article quotes a LEO as saying it's impossible to light a tank of jet fuel with gunfire. His very public point is taken but the truth is somewhat more complicated.
fuel in quantity is very hard to ignite. now spring a leak and let the vapors build for a few minutes, and the vapors arent so hard to ignite.
fuel in quantity is very hard to ignite. now spring a leak and let the vapors build for a few minutes, and the vapors arent so hard to ignite.
This is true, the liquid does not burn, the vapors do. But Jet full is modified kerosene which evaporates slower then gasoline. And he would need AP tracer ammo. Tracer they found, nothing about AP. I assume caliber was 223, would it penetrate fuel tanks? They are generally thicker steel at bottom of tanks. The vapors, by the way, have to be a certain percentage of the air, with gasoline about 15%, if heaver with vapor then that it will not burn.
Vern Humphrey
10-09-2017, 03:32
The Las Vegas Review-Journal, citing an unnamed source, reported late Wednesday that two holes were found in one of the two jet fuel tanks near the site of the Route 91 Harvest concert. One of the bullets penetrated a tank, but did not cause an explosion, the report said.
Take a look at how BIG those tanks are! If he only hit them twice out of all the rounds he fired, clearly those were not deliberate shots, just random.
Former Cav
10-09-2017, 04:05
I'm guessing he used his 308 scoped rifle for the tanks.
BTW.... wouldn't the tank have a rubber bladder in it that shrinks as you draw the fluid down so their is NO room for vapors?
and...a couple of years ago...myth busters were shooting gasoline tanks with tracers and NOTHING happened.
Vern Humphrey
10-09-2017, 05:10
If so, he still only got two hits.
I'm guessing he used his 308 scoped rifle for the tanks.
BTW.... wouldn't the tank have a rubber bladder in it that shrinks as you draw the fluid down so their is NO room for vapors?
and...a couple of years ago...myth busters were shooting gasoline tanks with tracers and NOTHING happened.
Cav,
More than likely the tanks Do have a bladder to limit vapor. That would be why an attempt was made to put a hole in the tank. Even if he was successful in making a hole (or multiple holes, for that matter), he would still have to cause ignition in an area where the fuel/air mixture was right. Not so easy to do. Too much or too little fuel and it won't ignite. Same goes for air. Even if he did somehow manage to poke a hole and have the fuel ignite (and it would only do that outside of the tank), a fire of that size would be a non-event. Airport firefighters routinely practice on flammable liquid fires much larger than would have been created.
As to the mythbusters thing, again a tracer going through a gasoline tank wouldn't cause a fire unless the fuel/air mixture was right. I've personally observed cigarettes and even road flares being put out by being submerged in gasoline. Just don't try that at home! It was demonstrated during a flammable liquids class at a fire academy with all involved at a safe distance.
High Plaines Doug r
10-09-2017, 06:41
This is the difference between "tracer" rounds and "incendiary" rounds.
Two entirely different purposes.
This is the difference between "tracer" rounds and "incendiary" rounds.
Two entirely different purposes.
Agreed. Regardless of which would be used, without the right mix nothing would happen. Even an armor piercing incendiary round would enter the tank and not ignite the liquid. (Provided that the tank was the floating roof type)
There should also be a dike around each tank, which would keep the spilled fuel contained. I would also guess that there is a fire suppression system in place in the tank farm which probably includes fixed position monitors (nozzle on a pipe) and large quantities of foam.
Major Tom
10-10-2017, 05:13
Actually he was playing keno before hand and those were his numbers.
I think the fact ISIS claimed this shooting is a very significant bit of information. As I said in an earlier post, even the liberal National Public Radio (NPR) has reported they cannot find a single instance where ISIS has claimed credit for a incident where they had no part in either influencing or aiding in the act.
Red it wouldn't be the first time those guys tried to use our freedoms against us.
Roadkingtrax
10-10-2017, 08:51
Didn't ISIS claim responsibility for the 2017 hurricane season?
"...impossible to light a tank of jet fuel with gunfire..." Yep, but doable with the right ammo. Tracers do not start fires. Needs incendiaries, not APT. APTI would do it though. S'what it's made for.
Fox News isn't exactly a bastion of reality either. Nothing like a bit of fairy tale BS to increased viewership.
"...371 yards away..." More like 900 plus. The nutcase was 32 stories up and supposedly 390 or so yards from the concert. Based solely on that, the nut case's distance to the concert was about 504 yards. Right angle triangle geometry that confused us all in high school.
I've spent more than one day on a machinegun range watching blackhawks dump water on a fire started by tracers.
Vern Humphrey
10-10-2017, 01:56
I've spent more than one day on a machinegun range watching blackhawks dump water on a fire started by tracers.
Indeed they can start fires -- but not by being fired into a vat of jet fuel.
tracers are good at starting grass fires, but in wwI they couldnt even ignite the hydrogen in the german derigibles.
Vern Humphrey
10-10-2017, 02:34
tracers are good at starting grass fires, but in wwI they couldnt even ignite the hydrogen in the german derigibles.
For the same reason they wouldn't ignite the jet fuel in those tanks -- no oxygen.
Spent about a year working on the flight line at NAS Oceana in the mid 60's. We always had a fifty gallon drum about 1/4 full of JP5 that we tossed our cigarette butts into. As stated earlier, only the fumes are burning in any fire
For the same reason they wouldn't ignite the jet fuel in those tanks -- no oxygen.
exactly.
Indeed they can start fires -- but not by being fired into a vat of jet fuel.
Understood Vern. I was responding to the statement about tracers do not start fires. Please note that in my original post I described how even a road flare could be plunged into a pool of gasoline and not ignite the gas.
I'm guessing he used his 308 scoped rifle for the tanks.
BTW.... wouldn't the tank have a rubber bladder in it that shrinks as you draw the fluid down so their is NO room for vapors?
and...a couple of years ago...myth busters were shooting gasoline tanks with tracers and NOTHING happened.
If the tanks are the ones pictured in the link, then they have no bladder and no floating roof inside. There may be a nitrogen blanket on top of the liquid fuel. I've built a lot of them like those. One quarter inch floor plates, first two rings are usually three eighths thick, quarter inch the rest of the way up. A36 mild steel or 285 grade C.
Major Tom
10-11-2017, 05:04
Didn't ISIS claim responsibility for the 2017 hurricane season?
No, that was blamed on Trump according to Hillary.
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