Black Powder Questions

[psteinmayer]

I thought I would post these questions because I know that there are some really smart cookies here!

My brother-in-law found an old pound of Dupont FFFFg powder in his mother's house buried in a closet, and brought it to me because he knew that I would know what to do with it. My guess is that the can is 40 years old or more. As far as I could tell, it was unopened. I opened it and checked it for any signs of degradation... and found one tiny clump at the top that broke up as soon as I touched it. I poured a small amount (about 50 grains) into a pan and did a burn test... and got a nice POOF out of it.

My questions are this: Is this still viable powder? What could this be used for? I'm planning on loading some 45/70 in the near future. Can FFFFg be used for 45/70? I also have an older replica 1858 Remington ball & cap revolver, can this powder be used for that? (I used to use FFFg, and now I use Pyrodex P). If this powder is not safe, then I'll destroy it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tuna]

Black powder is not like smokeless powder. It doesn't degrade with time if kept cool and dry. Where I used to live farmers would still find cannon balls from the Revolutionary war. Navy explosives experts would take them and detonate them. They all went boom.

The powder you have being 4F would have been used in flintlocks in the pan to prime it. It would burn better with just a spark and ignite the main charge in the barrel. If I remember right it was as listed below as to what the F classes were. Been a long time since I shot black powder.

Single F........Cannon powder.

double FF......Musket powder.

Triple FFF......Pistol powder.

Four FFFF......Priming powder.

As to using 4F in a pistol. Not recommended to do that with it. If you know someone who shoots flintlocks then I would just give it to them. I can be hard to find 4F today from what I have been told.

[Sunray]

Goex sells 4F as flinter priming powder, but 4F is used by theatre/movie FX guys and model rocket types for ejector charges too. Rifle cartridge and pistol powder it is absolutely not. Rifles use 'F'. Cartridge handgun ammo uses 'FFF'.
"...got a nice POOF..." That suggests it's good. Best you buy a copy of The Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. Tell you everything you ever wanted to know about BP.
Smokeless doesn't degrade with time if kept cool and dry either.

[Tuna]

There are less and less dealers carrying any kind of black powder now. The requirements by local ordnance is getting tighter all the time. That is why the likes of black powder replacements has taken over the market plus the fact that clean up is easier and it's not as dirty when fired. But it just doesn't have that wonderful black powder smell when fired. Rotten eggs!!!! YUCK!!!!!!

[dave]

Using 4F in guns as the main charge could be very dangerous, burns too fast and pressure raise's too quick!

[psteinmayer]

Yeah, I am going to tuck the powder away in the back of my safe and hold on for a day when I can get a flintlock! I won't use it for anything else.

Thanks very much for all of the replies and advice. Very appreciated!
Paul

[AZshooter]

The only other use for 4F is as a main charge for one of the little .32 cal Remington Cap & Ball pocket pistols. The chambers are low capacity & 4F gives that little underpowered ball enough oomph to penetrate plywood instead of bouncing back to the shooter.

[RED]

Single F........Cannon powder.

double FF......Musket powder.

Triple FFF......Pistol powder.

Four FFFF......Priming powder.

Those are good guidelines but my niece tells me the 3F works great in the inline, 209 primed rifles, and shotguns. She should know. She has fired more BP than all of us put together... including the big Civil War Mortars, and cannons. She works for a BP company and represents them at all the big reenactments, etc.

[fguffey]

http://www.cowart.info/Florida%20History/Dupont/Dupont%20Biography.htm

F. Guffey

[AZshooter]

Single F........Cannon powder.

double FF......Musket powder.

Triple FFF......Pistol powder.

Four FFFF......Priming powder.

Those are good guidelines but my niece tells me the 3F works great in the inline, 209 primed rifles, and shotguns. She should know. She has fired more BP than all of us put together... including the big Civil War Mortars, and cannons. She works for a BP company and represents them at all the big reenactments, etc.

Then it's likely that she also told you that the traditional guidelines for BP use include 3F for C&B revolvers, although 2F works better in Walkers & Dragoons;

3F has been traditionally used in rifles "up to" .50 Cal.

2F is traditionally used for over .50 cal rifles and smoothbores/shotguns up to around .62 cal/20 ga. If you paid attention, she 'prolly also mentioned 1F for use in .75+ cal smoothbores / 12 ga. shotguns.

Did she wake you up long enough to also advise that many comprehensive BP shooters also use whatever granulation that works best for their particular caliber & barrel length? 3F seems to also work best & burn cleanest in shorter barreled .54 cal rifles.

There are really no hard & fast rules for powder granulation vs caliber/bore size. The goal is accuracy with minimal fouling.

And, BTW, if she hasn't herself personally CLEANED that gargantuan number of rifles that she shoots 'more than all of us combined', then she's really not all that special, now, is she?