Will Trump's threat backfire?

[Ken The Kanuck]

I know that Canada has been pro Israel, but now the question is do you vote with Trump and everyone figure that you are a pussy and caved to Trump's threat or do you vote against a long time ally?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/un-vote-us-jerusalem-canada-1.4459354

KTK

[Sunray]

The thing to remember is that nobody other than the Israelis, the Arab World(and it's terrs) and Trump care where the U.S. Embassy is located. Junior doesn't have a clue about anything. He has no experience or training to do anything. His "advisors" are telling him what to say and do.
The only thing that matters is what The Donald has to do and say about NAFTA. And he hasn't a clue about anything to do with trade. He's a real estate guy.

[S.A. Boggs]

Nations should vote their conscious, I am glad that finally the 1995 U.S. law will be implemented as Congress wanted. I don't care how Canada votes, that is your business not America's. Canada is a strong nation with a will of their own and should act accordingly...I applaud Canadians for doing this. Many in Canada will agree with the President's stand, many Americans won't but that is life. At no time should America demand that Canada blindly follow us or vice versa. Canada needs the U.S. as much as we need them in this world as brothers/sisters in arms as we share a common border and often business. Canada is a premier nation in my opinion and a great friend. We can disagree on the road to our destination but hopefully will arrive together at the end of the journey. The only problem I have with Canada is that darned cold and snow that Canada refuses to keep there!
Sam

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The thing to remember is that nobody other than the Israelis, the Arab World(and it's terrs) and Trump care where the U.S. Embassy is located. Junior doesn't have a clue about anything. He has no experience or training to do anything. His "advisors" are telling him what to say and do.
The only thing that matters is what The Donald has to do and say about NAFTA. And he hasn't a clue about anything to do with trade. He's a real estate guy.
I believe that many people have misjudged the President, I have found that "experts" often lead the wagon train into a box canyon.
Sam

[RED]

The thing to remember is that nobody other than the Israelis, the Arab World(and it's terrs) and Trump care where the U.S. Embassy is located. Junior doesn't have a clue about anything. He has no experience or training to do anything. His "advisors" are telling him what to say and do.
The only thing that matters is what The Donald has to do and say about NAFTA. And he hasn't a clue about anything to do with trade. He's a real estate guy.

From the words in your post it is obvious that you don't know a damn thing about the Middle East, Arabs or foreign affairs. You speak of "The Arab World" like it is a single unit. What about the millions of Arabs that are Christians, or one of the other 12 religions that Arabs embrace. What about Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq? According to you, since none of those countries are Arabic countries are you saying they don't care? Partner you are the clueless one! The argument ain't with Arabs it is with the Muslims and they are NOT one and the same.

Added:


Only 15% of Muslims are Arabs.

[togor]

Red didn't answer the question posed by the OP so I'll have a stab at it.

The threat itself is hollow bluster with nothing specifically behind it. For example, Egypt. Cut off their aid? Ask Bibi how he would feel about that! (Hint: Israel does not want an unstable Egypt on its border).

Red don't bother reading the rest because this is beyond your ability to follow and it will just make you mad anyways.

The bluff is made in the first place as yet another attempt to get people to wonder "Gosh, what is Trump up to?" Somehow, the thinking goes, if they spend their energy wondering what he's going to do, they have less energy for ripening their own plans. And possibly Don can bluff them into making a mistake, some sort of tactical misstep. But working the uncertainty angle like this is always a short-term play. It doesn't affect any of the long term factors at work on the situation. And since nothing is going to happen anytime soon in the Middle East, there really was no point to Trump calling people out like this. Follow me? And pretty much everybody knew it, so in that respect it did totally backfire. I mean, what's his next move? Who is he going to single out for punishment? Great Britain?

When people emphatically observe that this administration is a full-on Charlie Foxtrot when it comes to international affairs, it is because of episodes like this. Now you say, more proof that Uncle Sam needs to leave the UN. It's possible that this was about collecting a brown stamp for that, and that he pissed everyone off on purpose. But the US leaving the UN is not going to cause the UN to disappear. It will only reduce the US's leverage internationally when it gives up its veto at the Security Council. How much will Israel like that? Or Russia? Or China? The knee-jerk reactionaries who watch Fox News and read Breitbart just don't think this stuff through the way they should.

[S.A. Boggs]

Red didn't answer the question posed by the OP so I'll have a stab at it.

The threat itself is hollow bluster with nothing specifically behind it. For example, Egypt. Cut off their aid? Ask Bibi how he would feel about that! (Hint: Israel does not want an unstable Egypt on its border).

Red don't bother reading the rest because this is beyond your ability to follow and it will just make you mad anyways.

The bluff is made in the first place as yet another attempt to get people to wonder "Gosh, what is Trump up to?" Somehow, the thinking goes, if they spend their energy wondering what he's going to do, they have less energy for ripening their own plans. And possibly Don can bluff them into making a mistake, some sort of tactical misstep. But working the uncertainty angle like this is always a short-term play. It doesn't affect any of the long term factors at work on the situation. And since nothing is going to happen anytime soon in the Middle East, there really was no point to Trump calling people out like this. Follow me? And pretty much everybody knew it, so in that respect it did totally backfire. I mean, what's his next move? Who is he going to single out for punishment? Great Britain?

When people emphatically observe that this administration is a full-on Charlie Foxtrot when it comes to international affairs, it is because of episodes like this. Now you say, more proof that Uncle Sam needs to leave the UN. It's possible that this was about collecting a brown stamp for that, and that he pissed everyone off on purpose. But the US leaving the UN is not going to cause the UN to disappear. It will only reduce the US's leverage internationally when it gives up its veto at the Security Council. How much will Israel like that? Or Russia? Or China? The knee-jerk reactionaries who watch Fox News and read Breitbart just don't think this stuff through the way they should.
What's the big deal if we <$ for the U.N., we can still park a sub off a coast and no one the wiser. Remember what Chairman Mao said.
Sam

[RED]

Red didn't answer the question posed by the OP so I'll have a stab at it.

I didn't answer it because it is irrelevant. Canada's vote is Canada's vote. Whatever it is, no or pro, is not going to change anything. Canada will continue to be our best friend and vice versa.

Here, togor is trolling again. Promoting friction between the U.S. and Canada that doesn't exist,

Most of the UN members that will vote against the U.S. have no clue of the consequences. The U.S. has spent billions of dollars trying to help them. The UN exists solely because of the generosity America has offered. Trump will eventually quit supporting the UN and should do it quickly.

Can you name one big success the UN has achieved in the last 50 years? I don't remember any (especially any that happened without our money).

[S.A. Boggs]

Wonder what the consequences would be if the U.S. <U.N. finding by 50-75%, it would sound like a room of scorched cats.:hello:
Sam

[togor]

The UN question...name some 11th-hour, save-the-day act at the UN?

Who says that's the only relevant measure? The whole point of the place is to provide an alternative forum for resolving conflicts short of war, or to limit the intensity of that war through the prospect of armed intervention under the auspices of the UN flag. In the nuclear age, that is valuable.

Again, if the US leaves the UN, the UN continues, and the US security council veto disappears. Catastrophic war becomes more likely.

[RED]

The UN question...name some 11th-hour, save-the-day act at the UN?

Who says that's the only relevant measure? The whole point of the place is to provide an alternative forum for resolving conflicts short of war, or to limit the intensity of that war through the prospect of armed intervention under the auspices of the UN flag. In the nuclear age, that is valuable.

Again, if the US leaves the UN, the UN continues, and the US security council veto disappears. Catastrophic war becomes more likely.

Total bull shiet. If the U.S. leaves the UN it dies. Dead as a pickled onion.

[dryheat]

- Catastrophic war becomes more likely.-
Fine with me. Let the idiots kill each other...more. Except we stay out of it.

[m1ashooter]

I like the way the President thinks on this matter. Why should the US give money to any nation that doesn't support our National interests. As to Canada I don't remember us giving them foreign aid so Trumps position is a moot point.

[JB White]

Why is Canada being singled out here? They abstained on any official vote. Only offered a statement saying they are not in full agreement. Several other nations followed the same trail.
"Not sure where this is going. Not sure we like it. Don't know if this would be good for Canada. We aren't throwing any stones...at least not today."

[togor]

Total bull shiet. If the U.S. leaves the UN it dies. Dead as a pickled onion.

You seem so certain. Can you explain your reasoning? Or is that a knee-jerk reflex to take a contrary position?

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- Catastrophic war becomes more likely.-
Fine with me. Let the idiots kill each other...more. Except we stay out of it.

So...ignore our friends, including Israel, if they get mixed up in something? Good luck making that stick.

[Ken The Kanuck]

Why is Canada being singled out here? They abstained on any official vote. Only offered a statement saying they are not in full agreement. Several other nations followed the same trail.
"Not sure where this is going. Not sure we like it. Don't know if this would be good for Canada. We aren't throwing any stones...at least not today."

Hi JB,

The reasons I mentioned Canada were two fold, one Canada has been a supporter of Israel and two Canada does not receive any aid from the US. Hence Trump's threat does not have an impact upon Canada except in a way that Trump wouldn't want. That is when someone threatens you it pisses you off and even if you agree with the person you want to do something contary just to piss them off in return.

That was what I was wondering, how many countries feel that way?

I can understand where Trump is coming from, those countries who the US helps should show a little loyalty, I agree but is a threat a good move?

KTK

[leftyo]

i would speculate if the US walked away from the UN, canada and a few other countries would be tasked with picking up the tab.

[togor]

i would speculate if the US walked away from the UN, canada and a few other countries would be tasked with picking up the tab.

Good point. It really only takes one or two countries to step in to keep the facilities side going. Moving HQ to Asia would appeal to many.

It's crazy to think the US should disengage from the UN. Our living standard depends a good bit on international trade in raw materials, on shipping lanes, etc. So far Trump's bilateral philosophy on trade has found no takers. If we leave the UN, what is to stop them from putting sanctions on us?

[leftyo]

Good point. It really only takes one or two countries to step in to keep the facilities side going. Moving HQ to Asia would appeal to many.

It's crazy to think the US should disengage from the UN. Our living standard depends a good bit on international trade in raw materials, on shipping lanes, etc. So far Trump's bilateral philosophy on trade has found no takers. If we leave the UN, what is to stop them from putting sanctions on us?

sanctions do very little to small pissant countries, dont think we would suffer much from a UN sanction if they ever even had the balls to try it. the UN is far more dependent on us than we are of them.

[JB White]

Hi JB,

The reasons I mentioned Canada were two fold, one Canada has been a supporter of Israel and two Canada does not receive any aid from the US. Hence Trump's threat does not have an impact upon Canada except in a way that Trump wouldn't want. That is when someone threatens you it pisses you off and even if you agree with the person you want to do something contary just to piss them off in return.

That was what I was wondering, how many countries feel that way?

I can understand where Trump is coming from, those countries who the US helps should show a little loyalty, I agree but is a threat a good move?

KTK

I see where you're coming from. Your representation in the UN obviously sees it that way too. I saw Canada's reply as a well thought out CYA until we can see where this might be heading. I think Trump has every right to tell some of these piss ant countries to stop biting the hand that feeds them. That the USA has had enough of their crap. It's something we here have been bantering about for years.

Now, this brings me to the point that's been thrashing about in the back of my mind for decades. "WHAT IF..." some of those countries decide to seek all their support from China and/or Russia instead of letting the USA retain any influence? What if a unification takes place in that part of the world similar to the UAE's concept, but on a much more grand scale? Let's say they have someone with brains at the helm who's preference leans towards someone else like Russia? Kind of takes us off the international chess board.
Ike flipped off Castro as a piss ant, and how well did that work out for the USA?

I think it's great we have a leader willing to rattle a sabre once in a while. Pound his shoe on the desk. Without any plans to brave the fallout from any direction....I sure hope he has one.

[Mark in Ottawa]

My reading of the Canadian media suggest that a number of columnists feel that by abstaining, the Canadian Government has wimped out and failed to support its closest ally. In addition it should be noted that in 1979 the government of then Canadian Prime Minister Joe Clark proposed to move the Canadian embassy to Jerusalem but folded under pressure from the Arab governments. In 1979 it was in part due to a pending major contract with Saudi Arabia for Canadian telephone systems and now I suspect it was due in part to the fear of cancellation of a multi billion dollar contract with Saudi Arabia for armored personnel carriers

[Dick Hosmer]

Perhaps I'm being too simplistic, but where is it written that lowering our percentage of financial support and leaving the UN are one and the same, or in fact even related at all? The body is full of piss-ant countries who pay next to nothing - yet they are still members. We should keep our grandfathered perks and veto power - just stop paying so much for the privilege.

[leftyo]

Perhaps I'm being too simplistic, but where is it written that lowering our percentage of financial support and leaving the UN are one and the same, or in fact even related at all? The body is full of piss-ant countries who pay next to nothing - yet they are still members. We should keep our grandfathered perks and veto power - just stop paying so much for the privilege.

have to agree with you. just because we reduce our financial support does not mean we have to pull out. as members, we should pay the same exact percentage as every other member nation.

[Former Cav]

I've been writing to my congress geeks for many years.
1) secede from the UN
2) obviously QUIT funding the UN
3) kick them out of NY and the US
IF any of them wrote back (if I remember correctly only ONE did), and called me an isolationist.
Well, I watched 26 out of 32 jobs LEAVE the country, get bought sold numerous times, go broke, etc. in between 1969 to 1999.
Doesn't sound like "FAIR trade" to me.
I've been to Tokyo on a business trip and I saw their TARIFFS in action that ranged from 200 to 900% !!
We, as in the United States, our "GI's", are the ones doing all the bleeding and dying for these other clowns. Screw em.
I support Israel, if for no other reason... the Bible SAYS SO!!
The Honorable Donald J Trump has been the BEST president in my lifetime of 71 years and I am happy I voted FOR HIM!
I support him all the way.