1900/1901 cartouched Krag rifles

[Kragrifle]

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[Kragrifle]

Hasn’t been any new posts lately. Thought some might be interested in a few photos of an arsenal reworked 1896 Krag rifle. Most of these will be dated 1901 and fitted with either an 1896 or 1901 style sight. This particular rifle is an earlier 1900 dated specimen and so far the only one I have seen. 1896 carbines will also be found, though both I have seen have been fitted with the later short stock made without the cut out for the sling ring.

To my knowledge no data has been found on these reworked 1896 rifles and carbines but enough have been found to suspect these are legitimate Springfield produced weapons.

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Hasn’t been any new posts lately. Thought some might be interested in a few photos of an arsenal reworked 1896 Krag rifle. Most of these will be dated 1901 and fitted with either an 1896 or 1901 style sight. This particular rifle is an earlier 1900 dated specimen and so far the only one I have seen. 1896 carbines will also be found, though both I have seen have been fitted with the later short stock made without the cut out for the sling ring.

To my knowledge no data has been found on these reworked 1896 rifles and carbines but enough have been found to suspect these are legitimate Springfield produced weapons.

One more photo42669

[Ned Butts]

The royalty payment situation makes me wonder if they are rebuilds, inspected and stamped, that would then need royalties paid a second time. It has always been my understanding that royalties were paid on inspected rifles and carbines. I have seen a very few rifles in the past and questioned Bill Mook about them. His response was that they were assembled from "left over" 1896 receivers as "busy" work to use up parts and keep men working. I do not recall him giving a source documentation though. More food for thought

[nf1e]

I picked up one a few years ago during the great CMP bolt rifle release.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_1202_zpsxcqyxgwq.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_1202_zpsxcqyxgwq.jpg.html)

Semper Fi
Art

[butlersrangers]

It seems odd to me that a rebuilt model 1896 Krag would receive a fresh 'acceptance cartouche', dated 1900 or 1901, on the replaced stock. The arm had more than likely already been accepted, years previous.

If a new replacement stock was put on at Springfield Armory or another U.S. Arsenal, it seems more probable the rebuilt arm would receive only the 'circled P' stamp. (Also, IMHO - There would be no reason to have to pay a second royalty on an action, already paid for).

If a used and reconditioned stock was utilized, for the rebuild, it would have the remains of a 'cartouche & date' from its previous arm.

Maybe the '1900 & 1901 cartouche' stocks were actually reused model 1898 rifle stocks that had the 'Bolt-Area Recess' expertly re-cut to accept the model 1896 action? (Just a wild thought).

[Dick Hosmer]

I picked up one a few years ago during the great CMP bolt rifle release.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_1202_zpsxcqyxgwq.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_1202_zpsxcqyxgwq.jpg.html)

Semper Fi
Art

It might be (must be) camera distortion, but that kinda looks to me like an earlier thin-wrist stock????

[nf1e]

Don't know much about Krags although I have a few. Wouldn't know a thin-wrist stick if one bit me.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_1201_zpsxei9vyac.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_1201_zpsxei9vyac.jpg.html)

[butlersrangers]

'nf1e' - Nice Spread you have!

Your Stock looks like the later, 'heavy wrist' type, to me.

FWIW - A picture showing a 'thin wrist' stock:

42711

[Kragrifle]

Can you show the other side of the stock around the bolt cut out?

[Dick Hosmer]

'nf1e' - Nice Spread you have!

Your Stock looks like the later, 'heavy wrist' type, to me.



Well yes, in THAT picture it is, clearly, a thick wrist! Cameras can play tricks, especially in close-ups.

[nf1e]

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_1518_zpsddhmqvdg.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_1518_zpsddhmqvdg.jpg.html)

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_1519_zps7fche6yk.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_1519_zps7fche6yk.jpg.html)

[butlersrangers]

'nf1e' - You appear to actually have a U.S. model 1898 Krag. The OP was questioning the late 'cartouche dates' on some U.S. model 1896 Krags.

[madsenshooter]

There was someone on facebook who was questioning a 1901 cartouched 1896 not long ago. My guess would be they had some 96 receivers still in the system when the boss said in July 1898, "We're going to start producing 1898s." Come 1900-1902, with it being obvious there was a new rifle on the way, time to tidy up accounting so that royalties could be paid. I'm sure they still had the tooling to cut the bolt handle recess and flare still on hand.

[nf1e]

What do I know. I saw the question about the 1900 and remembered this one had one.
I will head back to my M14s where I am just a little more comfortable.
Happy New Year to all.

Semper Fi

Art

[butlersrangers]

Art - Don't take any offense. Krags are interesting with many little subtleties worthy of study. Happy New Year!

[nf1e]

Art - Don't take any offense. Krags are interesting with many little subtleties worthy of study. Happy New Year!

Heck, no offense taken. I just love loading for them and shooting. Never took the time to learn about the different variations of Krags, 03s, 03A4, 03A3, M1, M1 carbines. Way too busy shooting them, with a range right out my front door I keep pretty busy.

[Kragrifle]

42717
Now that we’re discussing unusual 1896 Krag rifles you have to bring up the sideways cartouche specimens. Again, they show up enough to believe they are Springfield produced, but documentation seems to be lacking.

[butlersrangers]

Maybe that was stamped on the day, J. Sumner Adams realized, they were never going to make him "Master Armorer".

[Dick Hosmer]

Anyone have an "1896" (w/o "Model") higher than 37045? Time for another check. Happy New Year!!!!!!

[cowtownscout]

Anyone have an "1896" (w/o "Model") higher than 37045? Time for another check. Happy New Year!!!!!!

Made me go look, both the 1896 carbine and rifle have "Model". I'll strive to get my Krags out to take photos and post them sometime in 2018. Happy New Year everyone!!
Scout

[butlersrangers]

'Kragrifle's original post introduced the subject of "Reworked model 1896 Krags" having a stock 'cartouche' dated 1900 or 1901, (rifles and carbines). IMHO such Krags beg explanation and this has kind of been lost in this thread.

Since manufacture of model 1896 actions ended, at around serial #109020, in approximately July, 1898, these late 'cartouche' stamps create an interesting puzzle. Were these model 1896 Krags not accepted for service until 1900 and 1901, or are these 'dated cartouche' stamps simply surviving marks on recycled stocks? (If the stocks are recycled, it opens the possibility that Springfield or other U.S. Arsenals may have altered 'used' model 1898 stocks to rebuild some model 1896 Arms).

More data, like the serial number range (of such model 1896 arms) and the stock condition (original finish or arsenal refinish), might throw further light on model 1896 Krags with 1900 & 1901 'cartouche' marks. Very close scrutiny should be given to the stock-inletting in the bolt handle area.

[Mark Daiute]

on 5's website is a rifle with the vertical cartouche it is under the heading of "interesting rifle" IIRC. It might shed some light on this discussion here.

M

[Dick Hosmer]

Is Joes's website up again? It has gone through a number of iterations over the years, always very much subject to his whim of the moment - you never know whether he is going to allow access, or have any viewable content, or not, at any given time. His book, however, is a very valuable source of information, and I would recommend it highly to any Krag collector.

[Mark Daiute]

was up in the last few days.

M

[Ned Butts]

was just there all good that I looked at