View Full Version : Gun illiterate news media
We all know how dumb the liberal news media is when it comes to guns, ammo and any type of scary weapons. I just heard on FOX that a person of interest is the one who sold the Las Vegas shooter 720 rounds of ammo. They claimed he had manufactured (reloaded) some armor piercing ammo and sold it like this is some kind of crime. They (FOX) said that the concern was that the armor piercing bullets were so bad because "they made a flame that the other bullets would follow". If you didn't know a single thing about bullets you should be able to figure out what armor piercing might mean.
Their exact words though. You would expect such stupidity from ABC, CBS, NBC and all the rest.
I guess it is a sign of the times when overpopulation causes people to live under a rock, in crowded cities, apartments and subdivisions and not experience the simplest of freedoms and fun of shooting.
These are the ones trying to persuade us in what is right and wrong when they themselves haven't got a clue. In their minds they are preaching to us, the little people.
Roadkingtrax
02-03-2018, 02:02
Not sure 7.62x51 as AP is legal in every jurisdiction.
AZshooter
02-03-2018, 02:23
Remember that it's "Journalism". Truth and accuracy are immaterial. Of utmost importance is the sensationalism - it sells advertising for Chebbys and Sugar-laden breakfast cereals. It's nothing new - Been that way since back in the days of 'Yellow Journalism'.
You can never get the straight gouge unless you review the court records. This is a Federal arrest so State law is immaterial. It may be wrong, but in some circles they are saying the rounds were APIT, which I think is banned by the Feds.
The bullets in the cartridges were armor-piercing, with an incendiary capsule in the nose, the complaint says.
Then there are some things that turn "reloading," into manufacturing. The use of new virgin brass is one... If you reload fired cartridges, by definition it is "reloading." If you are using factory new, brass, bullets, powder, and primers where does the "re..." come into the scene?
I know, lots and lots of guys use virgin brass in their custom hand loads and nobody cares. Take the same exact same ammo to gun shows and sell them by the hundreds or the thousands for profit with no licenses or permits, and then have some cockeyed lunatic use them to kill a bunch of people, and you are likely to end up in Club Fed.
JMHO
it is the fact he sold reloaded ammunition, as you must have the proper ffl to do so legally.
it is the fact he sold reloaded ammunition, as you must have the proper ffl to do so legally.
No, look it up. If my memory serves FFL's that are required to sell guns and those required for manufacturing and selling ammunition are different.. FFL's are relative to guns, not ammunition. Thousands of hardware stores, quick shops, etc sell ammunition and do not have an FFL. I have a local Tractor Supply store and a local Orschlens Hardware store that sells ammunition... but they can't sell guns because they don't have a corporate FFL.
As I understand it, this guy had a type 01 FFL, that allowed him to sell firearms. He did not have a type 10 FFL that allowed him to manufacture:
... destructive device ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition.
No, look it up. If my memory serves FFL's that are required to sell guns and those required for manufacturing and selling ammunition are different.. FFL's are relative to guns, not ammunition. Thousands of hardware stores, quick shops, etc sell ammunition and do not have an FFL. I have a local Tractor Supply store and a local Orschlens Hardware store that sells ammunition... but they can't sell guns because they don't have a corporate FFL.
As I understand it, this guy had a type 01 FFL, that allowed him to sell firearms. He did not have a type 10 FFL that allowed him to manufacture:
thats why i said THE PROPER FFL, you need the correct FFL to sell ammunition that you have manufactured or reloaded. i used to work in the industry.
One has to have the correct license to make and sell any king of ammo that can be used in any firearm. There is a fee involved and this guy did not pay the fees and did not have a federal license to manufacture ammunition. It's not against the law to load any ammo for your own use BUT it is against Federal law to try and sell it if your not licensed.
My point was that the media does not know what an armor piercing bullet is. They described a tracer but stated that the rest of the bullets would follow the trail of fire as if they were automated to do so.
My point was that the media does not know what an armor piercing bullet is. They described a tracer but stated that the rest of the bullets would follow the trail of fire as if they were automated to do so.
the media knows virtually nothing, even when someone straight up corrects them, next time they half modify what they were saying and make it even goofier. the famous magazine clips!
My point was that the media does not know what an armor piercing bullet is. They described a tracer but stated that the rest of the bullets would follow the trail of fire as if they were automated to do so.
Allen, I understand and appreciate your post.. What I was trying to point out is there are a lot of "gun" people that know a lot about ammunition but don't have a working knowledge of the law. I once "reloaded" ammunition and sold it. I obtained a letter from the BATF that said what I was doing was not "manufacturing." If you buy ammunition from Wally World and sell some of it to your neighbor, you are not breaking the law. The big difference is you are not "in the business."
One has to have the correct license to make and sell any king of ammo that can be used in any firearm.
That is a misleading statement. What is "making ammo?" If you reload a muzzle loading rifle, have you made "ammunition?" If you pull a FMJ bullet from military surplus ammunition and replace it with a soft point projectile, are you "making ammunition." If your neighbor reimburses you for the bullet, powder and primers you use to reload a 100 rounds of .45ACP for him, are you going to go to jail for not having "the correct license to make and sell any king (sic) of ammo."
If that were the case, a lot of people here would be doing time.
JOHN COOK
02-04-2018, 02:43
If what I read and heard on FOX, he is not a person of interest. He has been charged for manufacturing AP ammunition without a license and selling it. I agree with RED, if you don't have the correct license you will be charged ,it's just that simple. You can battle this subject back and forth for the next week and he is still charged and will go to court. He stated that he didn't know the shooter was going to use them in the manner that he did. That statement will not get him very far in a court room. He has his tit in the wringer.
john
Allen, I understand and appreciate your post.. What I was trying to point out is there are a lot of "gun" people that know a lot about ammunition but don't have a working knowledge of the law. I once "reloaded" ammunition and sold it. I obtained a letter from the BATF that said what I was doing was not "manufacturing." If you buy ammunition from Wally World and sell some of it to your neighbor, you are not breaking the law. The big difference is you are not "in the business."
That is a misleading statement. What is "making ammo?" If you reload a muzzle loading rifle, have you made "ammunition?" If you pull a FMJ bullet from military surplus ammunition and replace it with a soft point projectile, are you "making ammunition." If your neighbor reimburses you for the bullet, powder and primers you use to reload a 100 rounds of .45ACP for him, are you going to go to jail for not having "the correct license to make and sell any king (sic) of ammo."
If that were the case, a lot of people here would be doing time.
if you assemble components into ammunition and sell it, you need an ffl to be legal. the fact the very many dont, and arent caught, nor the laws enforced, doesnt change the law. much like the illegal aliens, just because they can swim across the riogrande doesnt make it legal.
Watched FOX and they either corrected or knew it was tracer. And no BS about the next bullet following the "trail".
Watched FOX and they either corrected or knew it was tracer. And no BS about the next bullet following the "trail".
Thanks. At least they listened to someone who said "BS".
2 days ago the local FOX news station which is very liberal here in the Mobile area announced that someone had stolen an M16 from a Mobile PD cruiser. They showed a typical file picture of this "evil bad boy" with the little scope, front grip and light. Instead of referring to it as an M16, not available to the public, they said it was a fully automatic AR-15. In their feeble little minds they are trying to persuade everyone that all AR's are machine guns.
Before you might ask. I only watch their program for the morning traffic report that the other stations do not provide.
"...APTI..." The 'I' means incendiary. That's evil everywhere. Last time I looked on the ATF's Laws by Regulation site, it said 7.62NATO AP was evil because there are handguns chambered in .308 Win. .30 AP ammo is fine though.
Proper and correct mean the same thing.
The entire case sounds a lot like the Powers That Be are looking for somebody to blame and found one.
"...the media knows virtually nothing..." Yep. And they have no qualms about making stuff up either.
JOHN COOK
02-04-2018, 10:14
The entire case sounds a lot like the Powers That Be are looking for somebody to blame and found one.
"...the media knows virtually nothing..." Yep. And they have no qualms about making stuff up either.
I don't think the FEDS have to make up stuff in this case. It is known that Mr. Haig (sp) the manufacturer's name was found on the ammo box in the shooters hotel room and they have his prints on the ammo and the box they were in. Any law enforcement officer seeing the boxes not labeled Remington,Federal, or some other known brand would more than likely look up Mr. Haig and look into his activities. This information can be seen on NBC site and ABC, CBS and FOX. Get the facts as they are shown before posting.
john
Griff Murphey
02-04-2018, 01:07
A good friend police officer and very excellent 3 gun champ pointed out that .308 (7.62) ammo is considered by ATF to be PISTOL ammo due to the single shot handguns available, and therefore 7.62/.308 AP is prohibited as "armor piercing pistol ammunition." A likely scenario is that the seller made up some 7.62 /.308 AP using pulled .30'06 AP projectiles and that is the basis of the charge. Of course we do not have all the facts yet (if we ever will...) in the case.
The media has no technical knowledge of firearms and their articles concerning guns amount to childlike blather, at best.
bostonbound
02-05-2018, 12:44
My point was that the media does not know what an armor piercing bullet is. They described a tracer but stated that the rest of the bullets would follow the trail of fire as if they were automated to do so.
That's what it showed in Roger Rabbit!
bostonbound
02-05-2018, 12:50
"...APTI..." The 'I' means incendiary. That's evil everywhere.
API in 30-06 is not illegal by federal law - though it may be illegal in some states of smaller jurisdictions. The CMP sold 30-06 API a while back - as it also sold 30-06 tracer and AP. There was much discussion on the CMP Forum about NOT pulling the 30-06 bullets of those flavors and putting them on .308 Win cartridge cases.
Gunbroker has quite a bit of API for sale - mostly caliber .50.
Former Cav
02-05-2018, 02:50
all they have to do is ACCUSE you of something and you are so screwed.
ever heard the saying "you can't fight city hall" ?
you would need BILLIONS of bucks to defend yourself from the fed govt or state govt.
city and local will bankrupt you.
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