Remington to file for bankruptcy?

[Allen]

I suppose this comes as no surprise. With a Republican president and congress the fear of communism is gone for now so people aren't buying up firearms. The firearm industry is in a downward spiral from the record sales during the obama years.

Remington, America's oldest gun maker, has a lot of debt and optimistic future sales are lacking.

I wonder if Remington goes down if Marlin will go with it or someone else will pick up the torch and run with it.

https://247wallst.com/consumer-products/2018/02/11/remington-arms-sets-up-for-bankruptcy-filing/

[clintonhater]

Rem isn't merely the oldest gunmaker, it's the oldest corporation in US. Absolutely tragic, if true. Last Rem news I heard was they were building a new plant in the south.

Aren't modified Rem 700s still the standard US sniper rifle? Every cop-car used to carry a Rem 870, but I guess all those have now been replaced by the free M16s provided by DOD.

[leftyo]

remingturd has been in a downward spiral for 20+years. IMO this has little to do with the buying patterns of the last 5 years or so, and much more to do with the bean counters and the quality of the products they toss out the door.

[Vern Humphrey]

I'll say this -- Remington rimfire ammo sucks. It's so bad I refuse to buy Remington centerfire. Who wants to have a 7X7 bull elk in his crosshairs and hear a "click!"

[togor]

Rimfire and center-fire are two different manufacturing processes. Maybe your rimfire gun needs a good cleaning? Bah, why let insufficient data stand in the way of a pet conclusion.

My 1187 Waterfowl 12Ga is a great performer BTW, never fails to feed, shoots consistent patterns.

[Former Cav]

Rem isn't merely the oldest gunmaker, it's the oldest corporation in US. Absolutely tragic,

Well, look what happened to the auto industry.
Look at Mopar..... it was Chrysler, then Daimler-Chrysler, then Cerebus investments, then FIAT and now their is the rumor mill that they will quit making cars and only make trucks.
Look at Cincinatti Milacron who used to make darned good machine tools!
I worked at a company back in the early 80's and we had three 10 vertical milling machine centers (10vc).
the best one was 1981, then an 82, then an 83.
the been counters cut the hydraulic pump on it. So when the ready tool arm would go to grab the next tool, you would have to program in a "dwell" on the tool that was currently cutting or it would leave marks as their was not enough hydraulic pressure to do both!!! So, now you got 32 tools with a 1 second tool change time and you increase that to 8 seconds ..... multiply that times 32 tools and that number times the number of parts in a day!!
You just LOST money.
I worked at a major manufacturing concern (international 8 billion a year corp) and they bought all Komatsu machining centers. You got a CAT 50 tool holder instead of a CAT 40 on the Cincinatti for the SAME dough. and NO dwell times.
I think Cincinatti milacron is gone.
I worked in engineering 30+ years and I watched 26 companies go bust or move out of the country. Then some DUPA in personnel would ask me "why did you have so many jobs?" DUH OH!
I thank GOD every day that I am retired!!!!!!!!!!!!
My job now is to HAVE fun. Went out shooting the M1A WED and was hitting in the black offhand at 100 yards. First time I've fired a 30 caliber in over a year due to gettting a triple bypass.

[blackhawknj]

Remington rimfire ammo has always worked for me, in my Ciener Conversion units it gives me 100% reliability.

[Allen]

Remington rimfire ammo has always worked for me, in my Ciener Conversion units it gives me 100% reliability.

Same here.

I have a misfire perhaps every 400-500th round regardless of manufacturer. Historically it seems people fault Remington 22LR ammo and praise CCI. I can't tell any difference except that the Remington brand is about 1/3 the cost. I have 36 bricks now, most of it being Remington.

Unless things have changed I have found that Remington and Federal produce the most accurate center fire factory ammo. Winchester being so ridiculously inconsistent that you can hear the difference between the rounds as they are fired, most of which would not even hit the target.

I'm sure everyone has a different opinion though.

[leftyo]

Same here.

I have a misfire perhaps every 400-500th round regardless of manufacturer. Historically it seems people fault Remington 22LR ammo and praise CCI. I can't tell any difference except that the Remington brand is about 1/3 the cost. I have 36 bricks now, most of it being Remington.

Unless things have changed I have found that Remington and Federal produce the most accurate center fire factory ammo. Winchester being so ridiculously inconsistent that you can hear the difference between the rounds as they are fired, most of which would not even hit the target.

I'm sure everyone has a different opinion though.

id agree that we probably all have different experiences. last remingturd centerfire ammo i ran over the chrono had a 300+fps variance in the same box. from tight 1/2" groups one box to patterns the next.

[clintonhater]

Complaining about their ammo is trivializing what's potentially another immense loss to the American shooting community. To me, it still seems "impossible" that Winchester is no more--that vast industrial complex in New Haven, thousands of workers, all gone.

[leftyo]

Complaining about their ammo is trivializing what's potentially another immense loss to the American shooting community. To me, it still seems "impossible" that Winchester is no more--that vast industrial complex in New Haven, thousands of workers, all gone.

we are not going to lose remingturd, will be just like every time colt has filed. sadly unless they s can the mgmt that got them into this position, it wont be the last time.

[JB White]

...Look at Mopar..... it was Chrysler, then Daimler-Chrysler, then Cerebus investments, then FIAT...

Cerebus still owns Remington/Marlin and can't find a buyer. They merged Bushmaster with DPMS and already tossed H&R into the trash for the final time. First they moved H&R into the Ilion Remington plant. Then they decided to crash it. The H&R tooling has already been sold off in bits or destroyed.
Aren't Cerebus and Freedom Group the same except on paper?

[Art]

The biggest problem, IMHO, is that way too many people overbought firearms in the Obama panic. People are simply not buying many firearms right now and in fact are unloading some of the guns they bought over the last nine years. What does a fellow really do with a half dozen black rifles and a bunch of high capacity auto pistols he bought because he thought they were going away forever?? More folks than you might think are in that category. A symptom of the problem is the number of privately owned gun stores that have gone out of business in the year where I live. Two I bought from on occasion have shut their doors in the past three months, and the management of another has told me they're in deep trouble. Even "Collector's Firearms" which never, ever put anything on sale have recently advertised blanket discounts to keep up cash flow. people aren't buying guns right now and if they do they expect to get a real bargain, and can because of the depressed firearms market.

Its the same reason a lot of companies (Indian Motor Cycle being one) went out of business right after WWII, they expanded rapidly due to war industry demand and couldn't survive the dramatic sales drop after that "bubble" market went away.

[Sunray]

"..."impossible" that Winchester is no more..." Winchester has been 'no more' and just an FN licenced brand name since 1989. Caused by eons of marketing based on the name as much as anything. Didn't help when Olin was convicted of violating the arms embargo in 1978.
None of these companies have come out with anything new and innovative for years either. Just chambering an M700 is something different on the orders of the MBA's in Marketing doesn't count.

[Art]

None of these companies have come out with anything new and innovative for years either. Just chambering an M700 is something different on the orders of the MBA's in Marketing doesn't count.

There is a conundrum. Shooters will routinely say they want "walnut and steel" and then balk at paying for it. My favorite example is the Winchester Super X Model 1 shotgun of the late 1970s. Winchester did a lot of market research and the overwhelming response was for a high quality walnut and steel autoloading shotgun. Winchester gave them what they wanted and from all reports the Super X Model 1 was a fine weapon. The problem was that it was both expensive and heavy, therefore didn't sell. The whole thing was an incredible boondoggle. The Remington 700 and the various models of the 870 are still major cash cows for Remington, even with their diminished attention to detail, but not Model 70s or Model 12s. Winchester was never able to bridge the gap that well. Winchester, when their traditional guns became too expensive to be profitable made guns that were failures because people who wouldn't pay the price for an old model 70 refused to buy the new Model 70 they could afford because it wasn't an old Model 70. Interestingly the great innovator of modern firearms design, Sturm Ruger, made a lot of money simply modernizing and using innovative production techniques on old school guns like the single action revolver, the single shot rifle, and the Mauser bolt action repeater. One of the guns they made their reputation on, the original .44 Magnum Carbine was dropped because.....it was too expensive to make due to the use of forged, machined parts in its construction. My 9mm polymer frame 9mm high capacity semi automatic pistol is superior to any Model 1911 I've ever owned when it comes to functionality and not much difference in accuracy. It is the ultimate reduction of the firearm to a tool, and as such will never engender a lot of affection. It is, however, my preference in a carry semi automatic. Such is the price of progress.

[S.A. Boggs]

I have to agree with much that has been said with this cravat. With the new production methods one wonder's why some of the "old" models couldn't be brought back. The Detective Special or the Colt .380 instead of a miniaturized 1911. I have a pre-warning Ruger [1974] that after all these years the finish is still superior to a new model. Colt shot themselves [again] in the foot with a marketing decision. Couple of years ago Colt recreated the M16A1 in semi @ a retail of $2500, Brownell's is doing the same at half the cost. Which one do you think will sell the most? Locally Wal-Mart brought back long guns and the local gun shop couldn't/wouldn't compete and is now closed. Gun companies were bought up by $$$people who saw a product to sell, not a heritage to cherish. The guy who inherited by marriage the local gun shop was the same, a lawyer who saw a cash cow and nothing more. People like Hodgson and Brownells understand the heritage not just the $$$.
Sam

[JB White]

People like Hodgson and Brownells understand the heritage not just the $$$.

Keep in mind it's much easier to appreciate the heritage when the $$$ is paying for everything else you enjoy in life. It's not easy to love a business which is in the red quarter after quarter. ;)

[S.A. Boggs]

@ the start of the Obama gun scare and general gun run I saw a man commit an act of stupidity. I was in the gun shop checking out powder when the green horn came in. He wanted to buy an "AR-15 Assault Rifle!" and ammo. When advised the store was sold out he asked if they had any other "Assault Rifles!" in stock. All the store had left was two of the Century 5.56 copies of the Israeli rifle which were know to have functioning problems. The guy held the rifle, was shown the features, without hesitation the guy bought both of the "Assault Rifles!" and a case of ammo. Didn't try to deal just whipped out his drivers license and CC to the tune of about $3,000. Immediately P.T. Barnum came to my mind! I talked to one of he other salesmen, a friend of mine. He said that for the last week this had been a daily occurrence and the store was dang near cleaned out of anything with large capacity. I seriously doubt that firearms will be seen at too many yard sales now.:eusa_wall:
Sam

[Art]

I have to agree with much that has been said with this cravat. With the new production methods one wonder's why some of the "old" models couldn't be brought back. The Detective Special..............
Sam

Colt recently introduced a double action snubby revolver they call the "Cobra." It actually is pretty much a stainless steel D.S. and has some nice features like interchangeable front sights that I like a lot. It is also competitively priced with Smith & Wesson comparable revolvers. The only drawback to me is that it is not a .357 Magnum which means that the steel small frame 'Smith's are more versatile but since most folks don't shoot magnums in snubbys that shouldn't be a huge deal. Now we'll just have to see if people actually buy it.

[JOHN COOK]

Colt recently introduced a double action snubby revolver they call the "Cobra.

I carried a Colt Cobra as my off duty weapon in the sixties it was a .38 Special. I did't like the way you had to pull back on the cylinder lock to unlock the cylinder. S&W was much more to my taste to push forward to unlock cylinder. Kind of strange Colt would wait this long to produce a Colt Cobra when the originals were made in the
Circa 1960-1978 like it is something new. I realize it is much more powerful weapon. Just 2 cents..............

john

[Clark Howard]

Let's not forget the plethora of nuisance lawsuits filed against Remington during Obammy years. Many, if not all of them, are dragging on and on, waiting for a cash settlement from Remington. A chapter 9 reorganization will dump most, if not all of these suits. Since dem judges are in charge of most of these cases, they will not be dropped, no matter how frivolous or without merit. Remington will survive. Regards, Clark

[Tuna]

Remington brought it on themselves with the problematic model 700 trigger system. They decided to not fix the problem and let it ride. They didn't even attempt to correct the trigger on rifles they were making. Just kept things the way they were. They had been told and warned about the system but just kept ignoring it like it would go away on it's own. Well it didn't and people did die from it and now it won't go away even though they fixed it or so they claim. But have not yet had a recall on the 700 to straighten it out. Then the 870 shotgun that had been a staple for many years had a few minor problems like barrels blowing up. But the patient on it ran out and then the Chinese started making exact copies of it and selling it for less then half what Remington sold them for. Then the latest boondoggle was the new 1911A1. Nice idea but too late to the party. Too many are making 1911A1 pistols and all Remington had was their name from WW2. (Not too many WW2 vets bought their 1911A1 to keep things going as most have died and the price is far to high to be competitive with others.) So now they waited to move out of wonderful New York where the wonderful Governor there hits them for making AR-15 style rifles so they can't even sell them in New York or other states next door for that matter. They should have left years ago but felt comfy where they were and never thought the party of the liberals would bit them is the butt!!!!