Discovery of USS LEXINGTON CV-2 including TBD Torpedo planes

[Griff Murphey]

You probably have heard that Paul Allen has found the ship on the bottom of the Coral Sea. As a war grave rivaling the ARIZONA and INDIANAPOLIS it's a huge national treasure. It's a World War Two battlefield with a jumble of aircraft on the ocean floor nearby. So far they have found 11 aircraft, including many Douglas TBD Devastators. There are no Devastators in any museums although some have been found in very fragile condition. At the depth they are in, recovery would be difficult but considering how good many of them look, I will wager Paul Allen will try. There is a jumble of them with wings folded. They would have fallen off of the ship as it went down but would likely have sunk at a slower rate than the ship. Combat veteran F-4-F Wildcats have also been found.

My understanding is that he has stated he will not enter the ship... But the TBD's are outside.

Torpedo squadron 8 off of USS HORNET was nearly wiped out flying the slow, obsolete TBDs in the Battle of Midway. One of the tactics used early in the war by our carriers was to deploy "scouting squadron" SBD dive bombers as anti torpedo plane patrols against Jap B5N Kate torpedo planes. The SBD's had proven capable of intercepting TBD's in prewar exercises. But thet did not work too well because the Kate was 93 mph faster than the TBD.

DIVE BOMBER with old Errol Flynn, filmed at NAS North Island in Technicolor, has some great film of pre WW-2 USN aircraft including the TBD.

[clintonhater]

DIVE BOMBER with old Errol Flynn, filmed at NAS North Island in Technicolor, has some great film of pre WW-2 USN aircraft including the TBD.

During the '20s & '30s, US armed forces had little to do, and were woefully underfunded by Congress, so an easy way to build up public awareness & support, & attract recruits, was to co-operate with Hollywood--which the War Dept. did to a degree that today seems amazing. Some of the most fascinating documentary footage surviving today of long lost ships & planes is to be found in such films as this one.

Where else, for ex., can you see close up motion pictures of such an obscure (but adorable) Navy fighter as the Grumman F3F than in Wings of the Navy, 1939? (By which time it was already obsolete.) And who knew the fuselage contained a large cargo compartment? Also shown are the earliest Catalinas, another favorite of mine.

[jjrothWA]

Thought there some TBD off Chicago? What was general condition of the Lexington?

[JB White]

Thought there some TBD off Chicago? What was general condition of the Lexington?

Don't know what shape they might be in. They salvaged a Wildcat for display at O'Hare Intl. and restored it in Butch O'Hare's markings same as from the action he was awarded the MOH. Ironically he was defending the Lexington that day.

**sorry, forgot to provide you with a link in regard to your question:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/news/ct-sta-wwii-documentary-st-0524-20160525-story.html

[Griff Murphey]

Thought there some TBD off Chicago? What was general condition of the Lexington?
AFAIK no TBDs have been found in Lake Michigan. I suspect the reason is they were pretty much expended in combat. it was a 200 mph plane woefully inadequate in combat and any survivors would not have been useful on those two paddle steamers they converted to training carriers. They did find an SB2U Vindicator in Lake Michigan and that is restored and in the Naval Air Museum in Pensacola. I've seen the Lake Michigan F-4-F at O'Hare in Butch's colors. For Christmas my daughter gave me the new Park flyer by E-Flite, nice 22" span rc electric in his colors. Lake Michigan has been a treasure trove of preserved WW2 naval aircraft. Several of the F-4-Fs and SBDs that have been salvaged have confirmed combat histories. But... so far, no TBDs.

Kind of hard to tell much about Lexington's general appearance from the snippets of video... I do not know if her trademark Island with that huge stack arrangement survived the sinking. Then we torpedoed it to avoid the possibility of it being captured by the Japanese. It took a lot of damage and there were many explosions on her. I am surprised the planes are in as good condition as they are.

[clintonhater]

Lake Michigan has been a treasure trove of preserved WW2 naval aircraft.

Watched a program (History Channel or NatGeo) on recovery of one of them. Said it was crucial to find & recover others before zebra mussels permanently ruined them, because something in the way they attach themselves eats away at the metal.

[Roadkingtrax]

The Navy is very aggressive about leaving things rot in place.

[jaie5070]

If she's deep she's safe. Many wrecks in shallower waters have been disappearing due to salvagers.

[clintonhater]

If she's deep she's safe.

If you mean the Marianas Trench, that's true. But few, if any, places in the Great Lakes are too deep for the destructive mussels that foreign trade has brought us.

[steelap]

If you mean the Marianas Trench, that's true. But few, if any, places in the Great Lakes are too deep for the destructive mussels that foreign trade has brought us.

I believe that he was referencing the Lex.

[DRAGONFLYDF]

there are no TBDs in the Great Lakes, and any that are in shallow water are too far gone due to corrosion, The TBDs near the Lexington are the best preserved and best chance of being raised for display. Good thing is, while they are deep, they have not settled into the sea floor so they should not be filled with sand to the point they cannot be lifted. The planes that remain in Lake Michigan are being destroyed by the muscles. The planes that came up in the early 90s had NO muscles on them and were in amazing shape, the latest recoveries were covered with them.

[jon_norstog]

I saw the pictures too. Were those Army Air Corps markings and paint on those planes?

jn

[Griff Murphey]

Jon:
Those were standard US Navy markings at that time with the stars with red dots and the horizontal flag stripes on the rudder. Then as now the national markings between the antecedent Army Air Corps now USAF and the USN pretty much mirrored each other. In May of 1942 the red dot and tail stripes were dropped to avoid confusion with the Jap markings in the Pacific. Interestingly AAF Pilots in Europe lamented the loss of the dot which resembled our allies the brits’ markings. Other mods were tried in Europe including an orange yellow outline. In June of 1943 the “wings” were added and the star and bar insignia was standardized.
The aircraft on Lexington are painted in Sea Gray upper surfaces over light gray.

[jon_norstog]

Thanks Griff, I didn't know ... and the undersea photos didn't really give you a sense of the colors on the planes.

jn