View Full Version : Suicide again
S.A. Boggs
06-08-2018, 05:13
Another person has taken their life, what a waste of self. Everyone deals with depression in the course of their life, some do it tragically as recently seen. Depression is a deep hole that is dug for us or we willing dig for self. Depression is induced because of an imbalance of chemicals in the brain or by situational that we are currently experiencing. There is help for those who suffer from this terrible illness, go seek help it is there for you. People mistakenly believe that ethanol will "cheer" a person up, i.e. the happy drunk, the reality is that ethanol is a depressant and does the reversal. Medication can and does help, so will counseling. I have a family member who use to get depressed in the winter due to a lack of light, since she now has installed the right type of light bulbs in her home her depression is now non-existent. I am one of the lucky ones who rarely get's depressed, when I do I find that it is situational in nature. I have a simple way to look at life, if I can't control it why worry and if I can control it what can I do about it. When I got cancer I never worried about dying, I know where I am going so what is the problem? My only concern was how the chemo/radiation would affect me and that was a bother. Having to wear a chemical pump directly connected into my chest was a worry. For your family sake, if you have depression issue contact a mental health facility for help, don't think that people will think you are "crazy", it is crazy not to get help.
Sam
Sam, from the Fire/EMS side, there does seem to be an uptick in suicides recently. I'm not sure what's causing it. Each case is equally sad and leaves us asking why they didn't seek help.
blackhawknj
06-08-2018, 02:52
I suspect drug use has a lot to do with it, having no spiritual or religious beliefs.
Conversely, I like to quote the words of KoKo, the Lord High Executioner in The Mikado:
"....there will be no difficulty in finding plenty of people whose loss will be a distinct gain to society at large."
Dan Shapiro
06-08-2018, 03:18
Is it a permanent uptick, or a "statistical anomaly"? Also consider that "suicide" covers a lot of ground. Hopeless drug addict, someone with an incurable but progressively degenerative disease, someone with a terminal and painful illness, some guy who just got a 'Dear John', or their girlfriend of 2 months just dumped them.
The world only seems to notice when a "successful" individual, with "everything to live for" decides to end their life.
They are all, equally sad.
clintonhater
06-08-2018, 05:50
Each case is equally sad and leaves us asking why they didn't seek help.
What kind of help? Suppose you're simply weary of living in poverty, constantly pinching pennies, etc.? Or suppose you're simply weary of living your life in a wheelchair, or tied to a resperator, or enduring some other severe physical limitation? You'd be satisfied with somebody holding your hand & telling you your life isn't as miserable as you think it is? Because that's the ONLY kind of "help" that realistically possible for many of life's most serious problems, & to believe otherwise is to ignore the hard facts of life.
Vern Humphrey
06-08-2018, 06:23
What kind of help? Suppose you're simply weary of living in poverty, constantly pinching pennies, etc.? Or suppose you're simply weary of living your life in a wheelchair, or tied to a resperator, or enduring some other severe physical limitation? You'd be satisfied with somebody holding your hand & telling you your life isn't as miserable as you think it is? Because that's the ONLY kind of "help" that realistically possible for many of life's most serious problems, & to believe otherwise is to ignore the hard facts of life.
But note that the two suicides, like Robin Williams', don't fit that "weary of living in poverty, constantly pinching pennies," or with severe physical limitations. These were healthy, successful people. By far the majority of people who commit suicide don't fall into those categories you list.
By far the majority of people who commit suicide don't fall into those categories you list.
Some people are just at the end of their rope.
Some people are just at the end of their rope.
HA! LOL
Inside Edition mentioned a spike in suicides after Norma Jean's suicide in the early sixties. The psychologist on the show mentioned five or six reasons why people end their lives.
IE mentioned in 2016, 45,000 people ended their lives which is more than people killed in auto accidents that year.
What kind of help? Suppose you're simply weary of living in poverty, constantly pinching pennies, etc.? Or suppose you're simply weary of living your life in a wheelchair, or tied to a resperator, or enduring some other severe physical limitation? You'd be satisfied with somebody holding your hand & telling you your life isn't as miserable as you think it is? Because that's the ONLY kind of "help" that realistically possible for many of life's most serious problems, & to believe otherwise is to ignore the hard facts of life.
I've been a firefighter for 32 years. I don't need anybody to hold my hand, pat my head, or give me cookies, either. Probably the last thing I do need is an internet toughguy giving me a lesson on real life. Anytime somebody sees me, it's because they're having a bad day. And in some cases, the worst day of their life. I see every circumstance of human life. Maybe that's why I cherish it.
What leaves us asking why someone didn't get help are things like the 14 year old who put a Mosin-Nagant in his mouth and evacuated his cranial cavity, or the 26 year old mother who hung herself while the kids were at school- the week before Christmas, or the 55 year old guy who hung himself in his closet without saying a word to anybody. Why does a 19 year old put a shotgun to his chest on New Year's Eve (and you arrive to find his father- a man you've known your whole life- doing CPR and expecting him to live). How about a beautiful 19 year old girl who slashed her own throat or the 36 year old woman who tied a weight to her chest and went into the swimming pool. NONE of them had any of the problems you mention and NONE of them had any problem that couldn't have been solved another way, but NONE of them EVER asked for help.
mike9905
06-08-2018, 09:22
Robin Williams had been diagnosed with Parkinson's and early onset dementia. He was a fanatic cyclist and I can't imagine how the prospect of not being able to ride his bikes affected him.
S.A. Boggs
06-09-2018, 03:20
I've been a firefighter for 32 years. I don't need anybody to hold my hand, pat my head, or give me cookies, either. Probably the last thing I do need is an internet toughguy giving me a lesson on real life. Anytime somebody sees me, it's because they're having a bad day. And in some cases, the worst day of their life. I see every circumstance of human life. Maybe that's why I cherish it.
What leaves us asking why someone didn't get help are things like the 14 year old who put a Mosin-Nagant in his mouth and evacuated his cranial cavity, or the 26 year old mother who hung herself while the kids were at school- the week before Christmas, or the 55 year old guy who hung himself in his closet without saying a word to anybody. Why does a 19 year old put a shotgun to his chest on New Year's Eve (and you arrive to find his father- a man you've known your whole life- doing CPR and expecting him to live). How about a beautiful 19 year old girl who slashed her own throat or the 36 year old woman who tied a weight to her chest and went into the swimming pool. NONE of them had any of the problems you mention and NONE of them had any problem that couldn't have been solved another way, but NONE of them EVER asked for help.
Tom you are asking questions that is asked in the mental health field. When I had criminal clients who I suspected were suicidal but not bad enough to hospitalize I got them revoked and put into the regional jail. I then told the medical staff to put them on suicide watch where they had everything dangerous taken away, put into a Velcro suit and watched 24 hours a day until the danger passed. I did have one female client who was bound and determined to do the act and eventually did. No amount of hospitalization, counseling, medication could change her from her course, we tried our best. I have asked the best psychiatrists why? The best answer I got was that the human mind is a corridor with many doors, some good some bad. Sometimes behind a door is a demon who lures them inside and slams the door shut...that is suicide. I have seen clients talk to their demon and it is spooky, that could be a reason for the "trip" to nowhere. The really hard part of suicide is what the survivors now have to go thru, the same questions that you Tom are asking of us the Mental Health Professional and we have no answer because now there is no answer just more questions. I never knew of any Christian/Jew who ended their life, only the non-believers who did. Christians/Jews have hope the non-believers none and that is truly sad. As bad as my life gets, I know where my house is standing and I will go their when God [bless HIS Holy Name] wants me to occupy it. All a non-believer has is a dark passageway of life.
Sam
clintonhater
06-09-2018, 06:23
NONE of them had any of the problems you mention and NONE of them had any problem that couldn't have been solved another way, but NONE of them EVER asked for help.
So what the hell does that prove? That NOBODY is crushed with unsolvable problems? That unsolvable problems don't exist? You're a blithering idiot if you think so, & clearly you have NOT seen "every circumstance of human life"; and what FANTASTIC arrogance to claim you have!
Nobody asserted that there aren't plenty of badly mixed-up crazies who kill themselves for frivolous reasons. To lump EVERY suicide in that category proves that, despite your claims of omniscience, you can't face the harsh facts of real life!
"...having no spiritual or religious beliefs..." Nonsense. It's a metal health issue. Not superstition.
"...an imbalance of chemicals..." That's the definition of clinical depression. There's more than one kind.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/depression/what-is-depression
S.A. Boggs
06-09-2018, 10:52
"...having no spiritual or religious beliefs..." Nonsense. It's a metal health issue. Not superstition.
"...an imbalance of chemicals..." That's the definition of clinical depression. There's more than one kind.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/depression/what-is-depression
People who have depression see the glass as either half full or totally empty with NO HOPE OF CHANGE. Yes, I agree in SOME situations it is a chemical imbalance often due to a negative balance of lithium, a toxic salt in their body. The body produces two types of chemicals, one that brings you up [mania] one that brings you down [depression]. Most walk the line balancing between the two worlds not too high or low, this is the definition of "normal" for the average person. Upset the apple cart one way or the other and disaster is often the results and it can happen in a matter of a few seconds. The other form is situational where all you see is your reality. People in lockup are often depressed or people facing some form of negative financial situation. Depression is a cliff that all human's at one time or another approach, some get close other's not so. Some get to the edge of the cliff, a voice beckons and the person steps off into oblivion. People who have a spiritual belief rarely suicide themselves, it is not in them. One can knock religion, that is their right. I know God and His miracles having had several of them given to me...return of my eyesight and the positive change in my life. I used religion in my therapy with my clients to a great success, those who believed did well. Those who didn't that is another story.
Sam
Roadkingtrax
06-09-2018, 10:57
The Miracle Worker now? Lol
S.A. Boggs
06-09-2018, 11:12
The Miracle Worker now? Lol
By the way, how is the barge trip doing?:eusa_whistle:
Sam
Roadkingtrax
06-09-2018, 11:16
By the way, how is the barge trip doing?:eusa_whistle:
Sam
See ya there! What hubris it must take to think you were saved by something other than biological luck and science.
blackhawknj
06-09-2018, 12:22
In her memoir "My Path and My Detours" Jane Russell wrote that "a higher power was always there 'telling me that if I could just hold tough a little longer, I'd find myself around one more dark corner, see one more spot of light and have one more drop of pure joy in this journey called life.'"
clintonhater
06-09-2018, 12:56
In her memoir "My Path and My Detours" Jane Russell wrote that "a higher power was always there 'telling me that if I could just hold tough a little longer, I'd find myself around one more dark corner, see one more spot of light and have one more drop of pure joy in this journey called life.'"
Well, that demonstrates her inner strength, & I'm glad it helped her, but what about all those others who didn't have the higher power telling them anything?
S.A. Boggs
06-09-2018, 02:21
See ya there! What hubris it must take to think you were saved by something other than biological luck and science.
"See me there?" I was saved by the Grace of God, not that of man. If I believe in God and follow scripture I have my Mansion, if you deny God and His Existence your reward is hell. If I am wrong and there is no God I am not in trouble. You on the other hand deny God and you are wrong where does that put you? See me there, no way as hell is a hell of a place.
Sam
Roadkingtrax
06-09-2018, 02:38
"Lord, save us from your followers."
Gosh, it got all Pentecostal in here again.
since this thread took a religious turn.. i'd lay odds that most suicides in the US are done by white christians. im thinking its by a large margin.
Sandpebble
06-09-2018, 02:59
since this thread took a religious turn.. i'd lay odds that most suicides in the US are done by white christians. im thinking its by a large margin.
mass killers too ... I'm thinking
So what the hell does that prove? That NOBODY is crushed with unsolvable problems? That unsolvable problems don't exist? You're a blithering idiot if you think so, & clearly you have NOT seen "every circumstance of human life"; and what FANTASTIC arrogance to claim you have!
Nobody asserted that there aren't plenty of badly mixed-up crazies who kill themselves for frivolous reasons. To lump EVERY suicide in that category proves that, despite your claims of omniscience, you can't face the harsh facts of real life!
Thank you, Dr. Freud, I was hoping you would respond. I think we can see who the omniscient blithering idiot with fantastic arrogance is.
clintonhater
06-09-2018, 05:21
Thank you, Dr. Freud, I was hoping you would respond. I think we can see who the omniscient blithering idiot with fantastic arrogance is.
Me the blithering idiot who claimed to have seen "every circumstance of human life"? It's YOU who claimed your firefighting experience made you an expert on human psychology, YOU who obviously thinks he's the shrink.
S.A. Boggs
06-09-2018, 08:03
mass killers too ... I'm thinking
Juvenile thought again? True Christians won't murder, non-believers most certainly will.
Sam
Juvenile thought again? True Christians won't murder, non-believers most certainly will.
Sam
true christians wont murder, LOL thats got to be one of the biggest piles of bull dung ever muttered!
true christians wont murder, LOL thats got to be one of the biggest piles of bull dung ever muttered!
There's a lot of people who profess to be Christians who indeed will murder you in a heartbeat. What I feel Sam is talking about is true faith. A true Christian who worships God and believes the Bible is not going to want to murder or commit suicide. I am a Christian and I know I could only pull a trigger on someone in an act of war or self defense for myself and loved ones. There are also many verses in the Bible against committing suicide. God brought us into this world--he will take us out but on his terms, not ours. Now while I believe in justice for the law breakers the thoughts of murdering someone does not interest me. Killing and murder are not always the same thing.
I like Tom Suzds post best. The aftermath is panicky.
Sam, from the Fire/EMS side, there does seem to be an uptick in suicides recently. I'm not sure what's causing it. Each case is equally sad and leaves us asking why they didn't seek help.
Some people may have so many problems or be suffering from so much pain that they don't want help. Obviously they find that suicide is the easy way out.
That's lazy. Smack yer self a little and find something, anything that gives you a hold on. xxxx, it shouldn't be all that difficult. You are a being on this vast planet(why do I have to do everything). Being stuck in the mud is challenging. Roll with it. You are young. Not my usual post.]
clintonhater
06-10-2018, 06:19
That's lazy. Smack yer self a little and find something, anything that gives you a hold on. xxxx, it shouldn't be all that difficult.
Remember that while you're waiting for the nursing home attendant to change your diaper. Of course, if you're very lucky, you won't even know your diaper needs to be changed--just a happy rutabaga.
Me the blithering idiot who claimed to have seen "every circumstance of human life"? It's YOU who claimed your firefighting experience made you an expert on human psychology, YOU who obviously thinks he's the shrink.
OK. I'll play.
Sam, from the Fire/EMS side, there does seem to be an uptick in suicides recently. I'm not sure what's causing it. Each case is equally sad and leaves us asking why they didn't seek help.
I've been a firefighter for 32 years. I don't need anybody to hold my hand, pat my head, or give me cookies, either. Probably the last thing I do need is an internet toughguy giving me a lesson on real life. Anytime somebody sees me, it's because they're having a bad day. And in some cases, the worst day of their life. I see every circumstance of human life. Maybe that's why I cherish it.
What leaves us asking why someone didn't get help are things like the 14 year old who put a Mosin-Nagant in his mouth and evacuated his cranial cavity, or the 26 year old mother who hung herself while the kids were at school- the week before Christmas, or the 55 year old guy who hung himself in his closet without saying a word to anybody. Why does a 19 year old put a shotgun to his chest on New Year's Eve (and you arrive to find his father- a man you've known your whole life- doing CPR and expecting him to live). How about a beautiful 19 year old girl who slashed her own throat or the 36 year old woman who tied a weight to her chest and went into the swimming pool. NONE of them had any of the problems you mention and NONE of them had any problem that couldn't have been solved another way, but NONE of them EVER asked for help.
Thank you, Dr. Freud, I was hoping you would respond. I think we can see who the omniscient blithering idiot with fantastic arrogance is.
At what point in the above quoted posts do I claim to be an expert in psychology? I don't. If anything, questioning why one wouldn't seek help demonstrated that I'm NOT a psychologist. I only claimed to be a firefighter.
Note that I said I have seen every circumstance of human life, but didn't say I have experienced every circumstance. You can see something, but not have experienced it. 32 years is a long time in the fire service and you get to see a lot you want to unsee in that time.
Just to clarify, the terminally ill and those with chronic conditions (you mentioned respirator patient, for example) generally DON'T make us wonder why.
I did nothing more than reply to the original post by mentioning that we have seen a rise in suicides and that we don't understand it. You needed to attack personally without provocation. I thank you for your input, but will not continue to reply, and wish you well in the future.
Best regards,
Tom
Game over.
blackhawknj
06-10-2018, 09:50
People use the word "Christian" too easily.
IMHO drug use is responsible for a lot of the problem, these various legal "medicines"-their efficacy is "greatly exaggerated", and anyone who burns their brain cells out with illicit ones---they didn't value it that much to begin with.
In my Army days (1967-1971) one of the best morale boosters was the death of a superior, and I can think of several, who, if they did themselves in....
In today's PC Army troops are really not being trained for combat, hence when they experience it...
clintonhater
06-11-2018, 08:41
You needed to attack personally without provocation.
"Game over." Obviously you're used to giving commands that others aren't allowed question. It's different here.
My first post merely questioned your simplistic assumption about the causes of suicide, saying nothing that directly referenced you personally, whereas YOU are the one who "attacked personally without provocation" by calling me an "internet toughguy"! Then saying later "I was hoping you'd respond." That wish granted.
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