Garand ejects fired cases upward.

[RED]

It has been over 10 years since I shot a Garand. I took my newly acquired Service Grade CMP to the range today to zero it in. At 25 yards with the rear sight up 8 clicks, it was 5" low. I raised it 13 clicks (21 total) and it was dead on center. I went up another 4 clicks and it was 1.5" high so I left it there, 25 is an easy number to remember.

In 4 clips I had one fail to feed (5th round in the clip) and had to eject the clip to clear the jam. One thing I noticed was the empties were ejected upward at about a 75 degree angle and landed about 3 feet to my right. A couple of cases actually hit the 8' high rafters on the shed covering the firing line and one round wound up laying on the bench to my immediate right. Any suggestions? I was shooting the S&B 150 gr. M-2 Ball sold by the CMP.

That was the first time I had been to a public range in over 20 years and It was overcrowded. I didn't get to shoot near as much as I wanted. My M-1A stayed in the van as did my .40 cal H&K.

[Major Tom]

There is plenty of advise on the internet and here on why a garand ejects empties haphazardly. Mine ejects to the right and forward about 5 feet as it should.

[Sunray]

"...21 total) and it was dead on center..." Change the front sight. It should be 8 or so clicks from bottomed out to be on target at 100. 25 from the bottom is way too many.
I'd be changing the ejector spring too. Mind you, the lubing of the rifle has to be right too.
And go here and download the TM-9-1275 and FM-23-5. Note the need for the provided UN & PW.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/
"...It was overcrowded..." It's also Saturday in summer.

[togor]

Stock fit can affect POI also. New CMP wood may need some relieving. I have also noticed that the fitment with new wood between the stock ferrule and the lower band is not always what it should be. The CMP assumption is that most guys don't notice, and if one does, do whatever to make him happy.

[Roadkingtrax]

Oprod may be rubbing hard on right mid clearance cut.

[Dan Shapiro]

I would disassemble and clean the bolt. In normal operation, the ejector flips the fired round on extraction, and the hump on the op rod bats the expended round out and to the right at about 2 o'clock as it chambers a new round. (This explains why a properly timed M1 will have expended cases with a "D" shaped case mouth). Of course the last round will go back at about 4 o'clock since the op rod/bolt will lock open on firing that last round.

[Rifleman]

What Dan said and I would add to generously lube/grease, when I started shooting mine again after a long absence I tended to lightly oil and that cause problems.

[RED]

Thanks a lot for all the information. It looks like I'm pretty much a noobie again with noobie questions. The front sight intrigues me. I knew that M-1 carbines often had front sights that were too tall and people filed them down. But, am I backward, or isn't this the same situation. A too tall front sight would move the impact down... right? Too tall can be fixed, too short can't. I was in the process of filling out a CMP order for parts including a new front sight... but would it be any different than the one on the rifle?

[m1ashooter]

Red, yes I believe a too tall front sight will move impact down. Can you get a measurement on your front sight?

[RED]

Dan said, "I would disassemble and clean the bolt."

Thank you !!! I used a punch to remove the extractor using my thumb to keep the ejector from going ballistic. Instead it turned out that I had to use needle nose pliers to pull out the ejector and spring. The spring was totally clogged by years of old grease. Then there was the extractor spring that normally would fall out... no way. Even using tweezers, and after soaking in #9 for hours, the damn spring wont move.

Thanks Dan for the tip.

[togor]

If the #9 doesn't do the trick, then maybe an extended soak in a can of auto parts cleaner. They sell those 1 gallon cans of it with a little basket. It's not as nasty (and therefore not as effective) as the stuff from the old days, but it still seems to be able to loosen heavy gunk. (Gunk may be the brand I think). Gloves still a good idea.

[Sandpebble]

The casings bounce off the op rod as allready stated. One thing "I think" that can change "when" it bounces off the op rod is timing.

Timing can be affected by the height of the "lobe" on the bullet follower . You can peen it higher with punch and hammer as a temporary fix .

That's what the CMP armorer did for me at Camp Perry in 99, just before the 2nd annual Garand Match .

[togor]

Have you tried a tilt test yet, Red?

[RED]

Back at the range this morning and no problems... except for the 25 clicks on the rear sight

The problem with the ejection and dimpling was easy once I detail stripped the bolt. The ejector plunger and spring, the extractor spring, and even the firing pin were covered by very hard Cosmoline (?) and the Hoppes didn't do much but a big pan of boiling water did the trick and I "flossed" the springs to get all the old grease out of the coils. The firing pin was covered with old burnt powder. I had to use a wood dowel and 00 steel wool to get it clean.
The only problem now is the front sight. I can't get a firm grip on the thought that it is too tall. I think there is something else going on there. I still haven't found my micrometer or my calipers so I can't measure the height. Moving sucks, especially when you downsize.

If the CMP was right on 2 week delivery, I should get my IHC service grade next week and I'll be able to switch out the front sights and see if that changes anything.

[Dan Shapiro]

I strongly suspect that the stock was switched out at some point. I have an M1A that came in a wood stock. At 200 yds, it needed 10 clicks up. Later, I switched to a fiberglass stock. At 200 yds, it only required 2 clicks up. All 4 of the M1's that I have, have a front sight blade roughly 1/4" tall.

[lyman]

unless some has been filing on the front sight you have, it should not be the problem,

there are only 2 front sights available (from uncle sam) for the M1, the standard sight, and the NM sight,
all the makers made them to the same spec,


I would give the entire gun a detailed strip, including the rear sight,
then try the tilt test to be sure the op rod is not rubbing,

and of course, try some different ammo (LC or HXP if you can find it in your area)

[RED]

unless some has been filing on the front sight you have, it should not be the problem,

there are only 2 front sights available (from uncle sam) for the M1, the standard sight, and the NM sight,
all the makers made them to the same spec,


I would give the entire gun a detailed strip, including the rear sight,
then try the tilt test to be sure the op rod is not rubbing,

and of course, try some different ammo (LC or HXP if you can find it in your area)

I do the "tilt test." every time I field strip either my M-1 or my M1-A. The ammo thing is a excellent observation. The CMP tells me it is made for the Garand with the same specs as the WWII/Korea ammunition.

Detail stripping the rear sight is another good suggestion and brings up a couple of questions. It has a lock bar rear sight. Is that what a June of 1943 Garand was born with and are the clicks the same as the later sights?

I used a laser bore sight, and yes the POI is well below the point of aim with the iron sights. I have had the gas system and both hand guards off the rifle and can't, with my untrained eye, find a problem.

I have a IHC service grade on order... maybe I can fiqure out something by switching parts around.

BTW I "carried," a M-1 Garand in 2 years of ROTC in college... Then I "carried," a M-1 during 20 weeks U.S. Navy Officer Candidate School that was operated by USMC Drill Instructors. I had my Garand tossed over 3 ranks and into a sand pile where it stuck like a javelin. I was then given 5 minutes to field strip and clean the sand out of the rifle... blindfolded.

Just so you will know, in all that time and all those miles of drilling, I never fired a Garand and never saw one with a firing pin.

[Dan Shapiro]

Detail stripping the rear sight is another good suggestion and brings up a couple of questions. It has a lock bar rear sight. Is that what a June of 1943 Garand was born with and are the clicks the same as the later sights?

Yes. A '43 Garand would have lockbar rear sights, clicks mean the same as on a T105E. Unless someone has worked on it before, the rear sight pinion will be staked on. It can be removed, just use lots of oil as you unscrew the lockbar from the pinion. Whether you restake after reassembly is up to you.

I have a IHC service grade on order... maybe I can fiqure out something by switching parts around.

Swap out just the stock and see what happens.

[RED]

Detail stripping the rear sight is another good suggestion and brings up a couple of questions. It has a lock bar rear sight. Is that what a June of 1943 Garand was born with and are the clicks the same as the later sights?

Yes. A '43 Garand would have lockbar rear sights, clicks mean the same as on a T105E. Unless someone has worked on it before, the rear sight pinion will be staked on. It can be removed, just use lots of oil as you unscrew the lockbar from the pinion. Whether you restake after reassembly is up to you.

I have a IHC service grade on order... maybe I can fiqure out something by switching parts around.

Swap out just the stock and see what happens.

Thanks again, Willco... Apparently the lock bar had been removed before and wasn't staked. I detail stripped it and couldn't find any dings or problems. I put it back together and both windage and elevation were reset to center the windage, elevation,etc. I checked it with a lazer bore sight and, yes, with the windage on the zero index and the elevation set to 8 clicks up... it still shoots 5 1/2" low at 25 yards.

[jcj54]

Sight adjust rule:
Move the rear sight the same direction you want the bullet to move.
Move the front sight the opposite direction you want the bullet to move.


Had a problem with a Winchester M1 which shot too high when rear aperture was all tye way down. Had a front sight that was the tallest possible. I discovered that the Winchester sight aperture was factory drilled high and left. Replaced it with one drilled in the center and the rifle shot about 8" low at 100 yards with the rear sight all the way down.