DP question

[DaveL]

I have a 1918 Enfield SmLE lll* that I just picked up pretty cheep. It has DP in raised letters (how is that done??) on the right side of the rear stock. I've taken it apart and checked the headspace and everything else I know to look for and everything looks good. All the parts and springs etc. are there. The barrel is a little bit frosted but not bad.

My question is, when they turned a rifle into a Drill Purpose rifle, did they mark it anywhere on the metal parts?
I find no other DP's anywhere on it.

The rifle looks good except for the DP on the stock. I'm thinking maybe the stock has been replaced with a "better" stock from a Drill Purpose rifle sometime in the past.

Another question I have is what was the most common reason to turn a rifle into a DP rifle?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

[Merc]

Assuming the rifle can still be fired, you could take a closer look at the bore. Throat and muzzle erosion are two conditions that can affect bullet velocity and accuracy.

[DaveL]

That's the reason I'm looking to find out if the metal is marked DP anywhere. I'm trying to find the cause for this rifle to have been DPed. So, what I glean from your reply is throat and muzzle erosion are the main reasons for designating a rifle DP?

[p246]

All my DP rifles are stamped in multiple places. Receiver, triggerguard, stock. Could be an old DP stock was placed on yours by a civilian. Only way to know is check head space and slug bore etc. The safest bet is to have a gunsmith check it over.

[Merc]

If the action in unworn and all of the parts are there, the only thing left to consider is the condition of the bore. The Brits were known to have stenciled “BLR” (Beyond Local Repair) on the stock for rifles that couldn’t be repaired in the field. A rifle that’s designated for drill purposes only might have had some defect that was too costly to correct (i.e. a shot-out bore and needed rebarreled) or was considered obsolete and replaced by a newer model. A gun smith can quickly tell you if the muzzle and throat are still within specs.

I bought a muzzle gauge online that works well to check for muzzle erosion.

A crude but effective way to check for throat erosion is to chamber a blank cartridge with the bullet backed out to the tip of the case and gently close the bolt to press the bullet down into the case. Measure the resulting length and compare it to an unfired cartridge. The difference between the two is the “jump gap” or the distance the bullet must travel before it encounters rifling in the bore. Another way is to press a bare bullet into the throat and insert a 1/4 inch dowel rod into the muzzle until it touches the bullet and mark the dowel at the muzzle. Repeat the process with a chambered blank cartridge sized at the proper overall length and mark the dowel rod again at the muzzle. The space between the two marks on the dowel rod is the jump gap. Both methods are crude but will give you some indication of throat erosion.

The muzzle on my 1944 No. 4 is unworn but the jump gap is about 1/4” which means it is worn but still shoots accurately.

[JB White]

Another question I have is what was the most common reason to turn a rifle into a DP rifle?

There is no single common reason aside from the most typical reason(s). Condemned by an armorer as dangerous for service and beyond repair. Stressed or cracking detected by scans. Stretched beyond safe limits detected by gauges. Exposure to extreme temperatures, as in the thousands of rifles which were salvaged from fire. It's a long list of reasons, more than just mentioned and they weren't marked on the rifle. DP means DP and that's it. Small batches were selected from storage simply to fill a need. Most all DP rifles will spec to some degree. It's a gamble today guessing why it was downgraded.

If your rifle is lacking DP stamps on the action body and barrel then there is a good chance it was either "upgraded" or "de-sporterized" using DP parts by a previous owner. Which is why I'm taking a guess as to why the DP on the wood is raised. Without seeing it I can think of a good reason it's like that. Refinishing.
By whatever means, steaming, soaking, chemicals... The compressed fibers of wood were raised back to their original position above the current surface plane of the immediate area. It surely wasn't stamped in that relief when initially condemned.

[Sunray]

"...the cause for this rifle to have been DPed..." You won't. Rifles were DP'd for a host of reasons. Usually because that particular rifle was handy or the next one in line for service. How is was done varied too.
"...most common reason to turn a rifle into a DP rifle..." Somebody needed one. Not all DP rifles were DP'd due to safety issues. Mind you, if it was going to cost more than the rifle was worth to fix whatever needed fixing, making it a DP rifle was an alternative to scrapping it.
There's a really good discussion about the whole issue here. The gist of it is the DP rifles are NOT suitable for shooting with any ammo at any time.
https://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-193362.html
Beyond Local Repair means the Regimental or local Depot(Base) weapon techs either didn't have the tools or parts to fix whatever need fixing. That could also have just been a rifle in need of redoing the metal finish. Beyond Local Repair is also known as Third Echelon repairs.

[DaveL]

Thanks for the replies guys. Very interesting.

[deadin]

I have one marked L59A1. It's my understanding that these were originally made as DP's and not just "converted" from an existing rifle.

[JB White]

I have one marked L59A1. It's my understanding that these were originally made as DP's and not just "converted" from an existing rifle.

In a sense, yes and no. The L59 series was established in writing long after No4 rifle production had ended. Condemned rifles and surplus stockpiles of spares were both utilized. Parts were scrubbed, modified, refinished, and assembled by designated armorers units in the 1970's. Not designed and produced at the factory level.
The L59 was given its own class designation because it was planned on a large scale according to specifications with a purpose in mind. Not just another SKN (Skeleton action) done by apprentices and/or instructors on a one-by-one basis. It was also not a standard DP downgrade.

It was indeed a conversion. Just not one done as conversions had been done prior.

[deadin]

Not designed and produced at the factory level.

I seem to remember that "The L59A1 DP Rifle. By Peter Laidler." stating that the L59A1 was the last rifle produced at Enfield and should be a part of any Enfield collection.
Was he playing loose with the production facts?? The one I have has no sign of previous markings on the socket or any place else. If it was scrubbed, they did a good job of it.

[DaveL]

I am constantly amazed by your extensive knowledge of all things Enfield JB. I would like to personally thank you for all your posts over the years. Every question I've had about Enfields has eventually been answered by you.
Thanks,
DaveL

[p246]

The L59A1 was also designed with the purpose of the rifles and there primary parts never being converted back into a live firing rifle, think IRA. Mine was built on a 1945 M47C marked receiver.

[JB White]

I seem to remember that "The L59A1 DP Rifle. By Peter Laidler." stating that the L59A1 was the last rifle produced at Enfield and should be a part of any Enfield collection.
Was he playing loose with the production facts?? The one I have has no sign of previous markings on the socket or any place else. If it was scrubbed, they did a good job of it.

I cannot answer for the Captain. There were several types of drill rifles made each having their own subtle and some not so subtle variations. All depending on the shops and whichever branch of service they were being made up for. Were there L59's made up in a workshop at Enfield Lock itself in the final days? Maybe?
L59A1's are part of the Enfield rifle history but they aren't exactly my forte'. You'll need to ask the captain for specifics. I'm merely going on the general consensus of the collector community.

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I am constantly amazed by your extensive knowledge of all things Enfield JB. I would like to personally thank you for all your posts over the years. Every question I've had about Enfields has eventually been answered by you.
Thanks,
DaveL

Thanks, but there are guys out there who's vast knowledge and references can blow me away any day of the week!