View Full Version : Land of taxes
My wife and I spent two days in Niagra Falls, Ont., Canada doing the usual sight seeing, hiking and biking. We ate a small lunch and the bill in the photo shows the sales taxes we paid added almost $4 to the $23 we were charged for the meal.......and you thought health care in Canada was free.
44230
Sales tax in Canada is driven by health care about like it is driven by national defense, forest management, etc. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
Roadkingtrax
09-13-2018, 07:42
Dont rent a car at a major airport in the United States, that has a sports stadium nearby.
It’s relatively safe for the politicians to soak the non-residents who visit their towns and rent cars and stay in hotels and eat in the restaurants. The locals know better.
It just occurred to me that we were the only customers in this restaurant and all the other restaurants that we ate in were nearly empty including two in the Casino. I’ve often said that raising taxes beyond a certain point will yield negative returns.
Vern Humphrey
09-14-2018, 07:34
Of course it will. If we assume the business of government is to protect the people and ensure their prosperity, taxes work against the latter goal.
JOHN COOK
09-14-2018, 08:49
It’s relatively safe for the politicians to soak the non-residents who visit their towns and rent cars and stay in hotels and eat in the restaurants. The locals know better.
Wife and I visited Niagara Falls several years ago and got into conversation with a security guard at the Casino and we were discussing gas prices. He was a Canadian
citizen and he said he never purchased gas in Canada, always crossed over to US side and purchased. I didn't realize price I saw were liters instead of gallons. Prices were rather high in restaurants (I thought) at that time. One time visit to see the Falls never again...
john
Sales tax in Canada is primarily driven by the wages civil servants get paid. Health care costs what it does because all the unskilled workies in hospitals, etc. get paid skilled wages. They pay people to do nothing but push people around in wheelchairs. Cops here start at about $83 grand. Goes to a bit under $100 grand in 4 years. A police Sgt. gets $125 grand. And if you get caught committing a crime, you'll usually get suspended with pay. There's a guy in Waterloo(NE of TO) who's been on paid vacation for 2 or 3 years.
HST is the "Harmonized Sale Tax". Federal and Provincial taxes collected and wasted by both.
And our total tax bill is about 42% of our total income.
"...price I saw were litres..." Been that way since Junior's(our current PM) daddy got PO'd with Nixon in 1970 and jammed the metric system down our throats to punish him.
barretcreek
09-14-2018, 10:21
Junior's(our current PM) daddy got PO'd with Nixon
Fidel was your PM then?
Our last July vacation in Lakefield, Ont. near Peterborough was 20 years ago in 1998. I retired and shifted the vacation south to Florida in February. I always admired the Lakefield area and the fishing was always great. We made sure to fill our gas tanks at the last rest stop on I-90 at Angola, NY before crossing the border to avoid buying gas in Canada. It was a shock to see how expensive it was to fill an empty tank with Canadian gas, even back in 1998. Canadians are plentiful in Florida in February.
Consider the Canadian Dollar is worth .76 in US currency.
That’s correct although I’ve been there enough times to remember when both were equal or the US dollar was on the minus side.
Mark in Ottawa
09-14-2018, 02:38
The Harmonized sales tax (HST)is a blend of the federal and provincial sales taxes and totals 13%. The HST is similar to the European Value Added Tax (VAT) and is added on the the basic price of goods and services. One important characteristic of the HST is that it is visible to the consumer; it replaced a tax that was added on earlier in the production chain and was hidden. As was suggested, our health care is not "free", it is paid from tax revenues and according to a study by the Fraser Institute a couple of years ago, came to about $11,000 per year for a typical family of four. This money has to come from somewhere and our higher tax rate is where it comes from. You can't just cherry pick good and bad things and say that we pay more for our restaurants and gas, you have to look at the total picture and in totality I don't think that we pay that much more tax than in the USA, particularly of you factor in American health care costs.
As far as the problem being the cost of the civil service, I would certainly dispute that at most levels. Certainly at the lowest levels, civil servants tend to earn more than in the private sector but in the middle and upper levels the pay is far below the private sector. As an example, a friend of mine who was the franchise owner of a good sized pharmacy was earning about 50% more than a typical deputy minister who was managing a government department with budgets in the multi-billion dollar range. (Disclosure: I was a Canadian federal Public Servant for 42 years)
Sandpebble
09-14-2018, 05:17
on the other hand.... they'd all comit suicide in Canada before paying our medical insurance premiums... or the extra costs we pay for services or products that provide their employees insurance ...
one way or another... we all pay it
Americans pay a lot of taxes to support foreign lands that aren't worth a hoot. If we gave less away they wouldn't have to tax us so much. I really do resent part of my taxes going to useless foreigners.
Vern Humphrey
09-15-2018, 10:54
In the US, healthcare costs have increased dramatically since the Affordable Care Act was passed, from about $2.6 trillion in 2010 to an estimated $4.5 trillion in 2020.
(Source, Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, California Healthcare Foundation.)
In the US, healthcare costs have increased dramatically since the Affordable Care Act was passed, from about $2.6 trillion in 2010 to an estimated $4.5 trillion in 2020.
(Source, Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, California Healthcare Foundation.)
Affordable HUH???? odumbo's legacy!
Vern Humphrey
09-16-2018, 01:30
Affordable HUH???? odumbo's legacy!
And yet there are those on this forum who defend it.
blackhawknj
09-16-2018, 02:18
One of our Canadian members noted that in the Dominion the "distressed" families always have money for beer and weed, and the kids have to enrolled in school nutrition programs. "Useless foreigners" ? We have plenty of useless people within our borders.
Canadian sales taxes help spread the cost of healthcare throughout the Canadian population and the tourists who get no benefit from them.
How about big purchases, like cars? Do you actually buy them in Canada and pay the 13% sales tax, or do you go across the border and buy them in the US?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Per the 2015 data, Canadian men come in eighth, and the US comes in 32nd. So whatever is killing the Canadians, it doesn't appear to be taxes. Or if it is, then the US needs a tax hike. Hint for Vern: that last part was a little joke.
JB White
09-16-2018, 03:31
Canadian sales taxes help spread the cost of healthcare throughout the Canadian population and the tourists who get no benefit from them.
How about big purchases, like cars? Do you actually buy them in Canada and pay the 13% sales tax, or do you go across the border and buy them in the US?
Used to be when I returned to the US from Canada I could mail all my receipts to the proper authorities and get my Canadian taxes and certain Provincial taxes refunded. Not so anymore.
Doesn't matter where I buy a car and pay taxes on it. As soon as I get it into Illinois to register it, they charge all the Illinois taxes and the Chicago 'Daley Tax'. Only a huge difference in retail prices could help offset the actual total paid.
Mark in Ottawa
09-17-2018, 03:16
One comparative measure between the USA and Canada is "tax freedom day" - that is the day on which a typical family stops working for governments at all levels and starts to work for themselves. For the USA tax freedom day is April 19 (109 days); for Canada it is June 10 (161 days)
In 2018, the average Canadian family will earn $115,724 in income and pay a total of $50,464 in taxes (43.6%). (These are in Canadian dollars which are worth about 77 US cents)
The problem with this comparison of course, is that the Canadian data includes the cost of health care.
According to this website (https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends) the USA spends about $10,300 per person while Canada spends about $4,750 per year. It is not clear how much of the US expenditure is made by the government as opposed to private individuals.
All very interesting but somewhat inconclusive
Former Cav
09-17-2018, 05:02
wife's cousins in Sweden pay about 78% in taxes (total).
but hey, they get FREE health care and a FREE funeral too!!
The cost of healthcare in the US is certainly an expensive issue but the caliber and availability has generally kept up with the times. Long lines was a complaint I heard most often from my Canadian friends in Lakefield. CT scans and sonograms take 4 weeks and MRIs take 11 weeks according to the 2015 report issued by the Frazier Inst. Waiting 11 weeks for an MRI can be a death sentence for someone with a serious illness like a brain tumor. Has that improved in more recent years?
Sandpebble
09-17-2018, 05:23
Very interesting thread ...
I spent 5 1/2 years in Australia where taxes were higher... yup... blue jeans cost a hell of a lot more as did washing machines and clothes dryers.... however
medical care was a non issue... no matter who you were. If it bothered you to wait for non important stuff like wart removal you were free to purchase private insurance,,,,at a fraction of its cost here.
back to taxes.... at the time I lived there a cashier at a local big box Target store made enough money to buy a home.... and she did... and bought furniture to fill it.
Back here I discovered a cashier at Target couldn't afford rent
It's not how much you pay in taxes that's important ... it's what you can do with whats left over
and I never heard the rich down there whining ....they were just happy being rich enough
S.A. Boggs
09-18-2018, 02:09
Very interesting thread ...
I spent 5 1/2 years in Australia where taxes were higher... yup... blue jeans cost a hell of a lot more as did washing machines and clothes dryers.... however
medical care was a non issue... no matter who you were. If it bothered you to wait for non important stuff like wart removal you were free to purchase private insurance,,,,at a fraction of its cost here.
back to taxes.... at the time I lived there a cashier at a local big box Target store made enough money to buy a home.... and she did... and bought furniture to fill it.
Back here I discovered a cashier at Target couldn't afford rent
It's not how much you pay in taxes that's important ... it's what you can do with whats left over
and I never heard the rich down there whining ....they were just happy being rich enough
You're a traveled man, why reside in Florida?
Sam
Mark in Ottawa
09-18-2018, 07:44
Merc:
With respect to long waiting times for diagnostics you are correct for non-urgent situations. My understanding however is that for urgent cases, patients will be given high priority. In addition, depending on where you are you can get a private sector MRI in a day or so. I live in Ontario where until a few weeks ago we had a Liberal government that believed that there should be no such thing as a private sector MRI provider and bought them all out. As it happens I live in Ottawa which is on the border with the Province of Quebec which doesn't share that view and I can drive 20 minutes from home and get an immediate MRI as long as I want to pay for it (about $1,000 I understand)
As far as surgery is concerned, my experience has been that access was rapid, even for non-urgent surgery. Some years ago, after a long wait for a CATscan I was able to schedule major back surgery within two weeks. When I had to get my knee replaced, the surgeon was prepared to operate almost immediately but delayed at my request since I was going on vacation. In subsequent years I had two other knee surgeries, also with no delay.
The reality is that our system is not a bad as its critics portray it and not as good as it could be but for the most part is acceptable.
Sandpebble
09-18-2018, 10:54
[/QUOTE] The reality is that our system is not a bad as its critics portray it and not as good as it could be but for the most part is acceptable.[/QUOTE]
Well Mark that is because most critics have never experienced it. Frankly I have never met a Canadian... or Australian... that was unhappy with their health care system.
Yet here in the U.S. I personally know people who pay for insurance and yet still elected to have surgeries performed in South America because it was still a cheaper deal than their co pay here. Even adding in cost of flights . That is pretty sad ...
But on the whole it seems the greatest critics are those that recieve medical insurance as a work place benefit .... I guess they feel they would be loosing something if it was no longer a benefit .
Te myth that Canadians flock here for better treatment is just a bald faced lie .
Vern Humphrey
09-18-2018, 12:53
wife's cousins in Sweden pay about 78% in taxes (total).
but hey, they get FREE health care and a FREE funeral too!!
If I had to pay taxes like that, I would quickly avail myself of that last benefit!
I have not been to Canada since the 1950's. But back then t it was the "Imperial Gallon", which was 5 quarts. I was too young to drive but remember the adults saying the price was about the same as US.
I have not been to Canada since the 1950's. But back then t it was the "Imperial Gallon", which was 5 quarts. I was too young to drive but remember the adults saying the price was about the same as US.
Gas is sold by the liter in Canada. A quick check with gas buddy shows a price of 121.9CN per liter in Niagra Falls, ON. There are 3.79 liters in a US gallon.
Herschel
09-19-2018, 02:31
Is there a decimal point missing in the "121.9CN"?
Is there a decimal point missing in the "121.9CN"?
That’s how the price is shown on Gas Buddy. I guess they show it in pennies. I tried to include the link but it won’t work for some reason.
Sandpebble
09-20-2018, 04:32
You're a traveled man, why reside in Florida?
Sam
Traveled man ? .... 27 countries.. half of them multiple times and that was after my tour in the US Navy . Lived extensively in three and own property out right in two .
Why reside in Florida ? .... no winters for one.... cheap real estate when I got here for another
But Sam... I'm sure you would like to hear the "real" reason ....
cheap margaritas and immigrants to take advantage of.....
S.A. Boggs
09-21-2018, 08:56
Traveled man ? .... 27 countries.. half of them multiple times and that was after my tour in the US Navy . Lived extensively in three and own property out right in two .
Why reside in Florida ? .... no winters for one.... cheap real estate when I got here for another
But Sam... I'm sure you would like to hear the "real" reason ....
cheap margaritas and immigrants to take advantage of.....
Define "cheap".
Sam
Mark in Ottawa
09-21-2018, 09:53
Explanatory note: Gas prices in Canada are shown as cents per litre so a price of 121.9 would actually be $1.219 per litre (Canadian dollars). As of today a Canadian dollar is worth 77.4 US cents. So the price in US dollars would be $.9435 US dollars per litre. That equates to .9435 x 3.7854 = $3.57 US dollars per US gallon
Roadkingtrax
09-21-2018, 10:08
Explanatory note: Gas prices in Canada are shown as cents per litre so a price of 121.9 would actually be $1.219 per litre (Canadian dollars). As of today a Canadian dollar is worth 77.4 US cents. So the price in US dollars would be $.9435 US dollars per litre. That equates to .9435 x 3.7854 = $3.57 US dollars per US gallon
Canada has a similar driving opportunities like we do in the states. How many miles (km) per year is considered normal? I think were at about 10-15,000 miles a year in the US. If its considerably less, gas prices become less of a concern on a tight budget.
JB White
09-22-2018, 06:04
Explanatory note: Gas prices in Canada are shown as cents per litre so a price of 121.9 would actually be $1.219 per litre (Canadian dollars). As of today a Canadian dollar is worth 77.4 US cents. So the price in US dollars would be $.9435 US dollars per litre. That equates to .9435 x 3.7854 = $3.57 US dollars per US gallon
None of that matters if using USD in southern Canada. While they may take the cash, the price is still the same whether using Loonies or Greenbacks. (Good luck using Loonies a mile south of the border) Price conversions only work in banking, not at the pumps.
.
I don’t buy anything in Canada that can’t be bought with a credit card. That’s the only way to get the current exchange rate. We tried to do some shopping in Niagra-On-The-Lake, ON on a previous visit and noticed that some of the shops didn’t accept credit cards and wouldn’t give us the exchange rate, so we didn’t buy anything. I guess it’s their way of making a few bucks off the Yanks who burned their little town during the war of 1812. Beautiful place though.
So, recreational pot is now legal in all of Canada. A chance to increase tax revenue? Sounds like a deal with the devil and a nightmare for law enforcement.
Vern Humphrey
10-20-2018, 05:55
Funny how governments will do anything to increase revenues, and nothing to increase savings.
Funny how governments will do anything to increase revenues, and nothing to increase savings.
Savings by individuals? 401(k), 403(b), Roth? Savings by gov't? Rainy day funds sometimes get built up at the state/local level but give rise to accusations of gov't hoarding of taxpayer funds. So not sure what you mean by "nothing to increase savings".
blackhawknj
10-21-2018, 09:21
Properly managed, rainy day funs are just that-bad weather, something unanticipated and unexpected, an economic downturn. Raising taxes in a recession-that's really brilliant, shows a deep understanding of economics. A tax that provides nowhere near the amount of revenue anticipated.
A few years ago the voters of Alabama rejected a tax increase in a referendum, that prompted the then governor to say that:
"People feel there's no sense of stewardship."
S.A. Boggs
10-22-2018, 03:39
Savings by individuals? 401(k), 403(b), Roth? Savings by gov't? Rainy day funds sometimes get built up at the state/local level but give rise to accusations of gov't hoarding of taxpayer funds. So not sure what you mean by "nothing to increase savings".
Togor, a point of order please. How the heck did you get your "education" with so little grasp of reality?:icon_scratch:
Sam
Forget for a moment how lucrative it must seem to legalize something like dope so they could tax it when it used to be part of the underground economy. Is the liberal Canadian government ignoring the fact that pot is an addictive drug to some people and can cause brain abnormalities in young smoker? So, what’s the next legalized drug? Heroin? Crack?
Vern Humphrey
10-22-2018, 03:03
Togor, a point of order please. How the heck did you get your "education" with so little grasp of reality?:icon_scratch:
Sam
He can't have much of an education -- he used to make fun of my education, which in his bigoted way he assumed was inferior, since I'm from Arkansas. Then, somehow he found out I'm better educated than he is, and that ended that.:icon_wink:
S.A. Boggs
10-22-2018, 03:22
He can't have much of an education -- he used to make fun of my education, which in his bigoted way he assumed was inferior, since I'm from Arkansas. Then, somehow he found out I'm better educated than he is, and that ended that.:icon_wink:
Togor has no idea of the education that your posting required. Dealing with MEN in your situation one has to have a 6th and 7th sense of need/reality/courage. Togor is a protected personage who fears a paper cut.
Sam
Roadkingtrax
10-22-2018, 04:12
Togor has no idea of the education that your posting required. Dealing with MEN in your situation one has to have a 6th and 7th sense of need/reality/courage. Togor is a protected personage who fears a paper cut.
Sam
Wipe your chin.
S.A. Boggs
10-22-2018, 04:58
Wipe your chin.
Mine is not the one that has blood on it, better check yours!
Sam
Roadkingtrax
10-22-2018, 05:07
Mine is not the one that has blood on it, better check yours!
Sam
Sam, you're an odd duck. You can't attach yourself to the experiences and accomplishments of others in a sycophantic manner in an attempt to somehow elevate yourself. Just stop, it's weird.
Vern Humphrey
10-23-2018, 12:41
What Hunter said to Wingate!
He can't have much of an education -- he used to make fun of my education, which in his bigoted way he assumed was inferior, since I'm from Arkansas. Then, somehow he found out I'm better educated than he is, and that ended that.:icon_wink:
Hey how about a little help in keeping the posts driven by animus in the 2A forum. I pointed out that there are a number of tax-advantaged savings plans out there by which the gov't incentivizes savings, was pretty polite about it, and you got all snarky.
As for your education, I'm sure you wrote many fine papers but it's a history major and consequently subjective. My field is engineering, where if someone's stuff isn't up to snuff, then it fails in the field for all to see. That's a much more rigorous standard than what a history major sees on the job. (Sorry, but it's true.). By experience I've learned the necessity of seeing a subject from multiple angles, the need for objectivity, and yes I think that gives me a big leg up on you here, and is part of the reason you duck me on this forum.
Come on guys. How did we drift so far off topic?
I read where the US border customs officers are questioning Canadians about their marijuana use and banning for life those who admit to growing, using, selling, etc. marijuana.
Roadkingtrax
10-24-2018, 07:55
Come on guys. How did we drift so far off topic?
I read where the US border customs officers are questioning Canadians about their marijuana use and banning for life those who admit to growing, using, selling, etc. marijuana.
Canada doesn't look to kindly to Americans with DUIs either. That refusal for entry is a real thing.
Canada doesn't look to kindly to Americans with DUIs either. That refusal for entry is a real thing.
I don't remember being asked that question at the border crossing going north. A database thing?
Roadkingtrax
10-24-2018, 09:40
I don't remember being asked that question at the border crossing going north. A database thing?
Yes. Not having a DUI myself, but growing up in that other border state, it's more of a known quantity. Remember, we had to go south to go to Canada.
mike webb
10-25-2018, 08:27
Yup. Up here a DUI is considered a felony by the crown and is grounds for refusal of entry at border crossings. Typical bureaucratic bs. I think when the offense occurred should have some bearing. If a foreign national is entering Canada and 45 years old, a DUI when he was 18 shouldn't muck up his visit, IMO.
Former Cav
10-26-2018, 09:06
that's okay. just spend your money elsewhere.
Liberal Canada is now dealing with their own version of Obama. Libs like the idea of open borders and marijuana for everyone who wants it. What’s next?
I see where liberal Angela Merkel is quitting. This comes after she opened the German borders and welcomed Muslims who are determined to remake Germany into the country they left, just like England, France, Sweden, Denmark, etc., etc.
mike webb
11-01-2018, 05:44
Yup, we in Canada are bent over the barrel for the next two years at least with the Liberals. The rise of far right parties around the world is viewed as an unexplainable phenomenon by the main stream media. Some of these guys are wack jobs but all the extremism comes from seeing decades of liberal wrongheaded thinking. Eventually people are gonna push back. There are several "Canadian citizens" in jail in Syria and the Liberal government here is working to bring them back to Canada. These guys are scumbags who left Canada to fight for ISIS in Syria. Let them rot there!!! Canadians of convenience. We have thousands of them.
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