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cowtownscout
09-15-2018, 08:25
Here are two group photos (front and back) of the Trapdoors I currently have in my care along with the slings, bayonets and scabbards. If this works I will be posting group photos of other arms in the appropriate forums.
Scout

Top to Bottom:

1) Model 1865 Trapdoor, 1st Allin Conversion, Springfield, made 1865 with 5,000 model 1861s converted, used original barrel, .58-60 rim fire cal., socket bayonet
2) Model 1866 Trapdoor, 2nd Allin Conversion, Springfield, made 1867-1869 (1867) more robust and simple action with original barrel drilled and sleeved from .58 to .50 cal., 50-70 center fire cal., socket bayonet (with 52,000 model 1863 type 2s converted, half were sold to European Nations for use in Franco-Prussian War – the remaining 26,000 were issued to US Army)
3) Model 1868 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1869-1870 (1869), .50-70 cal., socket bayonet (with suitable Civil War arms for conversion dwindling the 1868 was made new with some minor parts from Civil War arms used, reduced barrel length from 40” to 32-1/2”, approximately 52,000 were made)
4) Model 1870 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1870-1871 (1870), .50-70 cal., socket bayonet (a slightly modified version of the model 1868 slightly longer action and was essentially the control rifle all the others would be compared, Springfield made 1,020 rifles and 341 carbines for field trial)
5) Model 1873 Trapdoor (early), Springfield, made 1873-1877 (1874), .45-70 cal., socket bayonet (approximately 51,180 rifles and 22,517 carbines were made)
6) Model 1873 Trapdoor (late-1877), Springfield, made 1878-1884 (1881), .45-70 cal., socket bayonet (approximately 130,269 rifles and 17,384 carbines were made)
7) Model 1884 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1884-1890 (1888); .45-70 cal., socket bayonet (approximately 143,620 rifles and 3,500 carbines were made)
8) Model 1888 Trapdoor, Springfield, made 1890-1893 (1892), .45-70 cal., socket bayonet (approximately 34,121 rifles and 5,000 carbines were made)

Reeferman
09-15-2018, 02:26
Really nice collection you have. Do you shoot all or some of them?

kj47
09-15-2018, 02:28
Another very nice collection, now I am jealous.

cowtownscout
09-15-2018, 02:55
Really nice collection you have. Do you shoot all or some of them?

I've not shot any of them yet. But will some day.

Carlsr
09-24-2018, 01:15
Great looking rifles!! Searching for an 1870 to complete my 50 cal. collection. Maybe after I'll search for a first Allin. I have seen one each time at the Forks on the Delaware in Allentown the last 3 shows. When I want one and have the money there will be none to find LOL!!!!

Kragrifle
10-01-2018, 04:53
A reasonably nice 1870 just showed up on Gunbroker

Dick Hosmer
10-01-2018, 08:15
I have mixed opinions about that one. The finish and wear anomalies are pretty striking - obviously the barrel has been badly cleaned - At one time the whole thing was brown and crusty. Look at the barrel bands, which are supposed to be bright. The bore is terrible - over 50 years of collecting my general experience has been that many trapdoors can be rough on the outside yet have excellent bores, which, FWIW, is almost the opposite of Krags. They can be beautiful on the outside and have bores like sewers, due to improper cleaning of the corrosive effects of the early smokeless ammo.

But, finish aside, the gun does appear to be a completely correct example of a late-production M1870. I do appreciate the effort taken in the description and the photography, which puts many other dealers to shame. Nearly every "1870" that you see turns out to be just a high-numbered 1868 with the late date.

It is interesting that, aside from the nearly 4-1 difference in production, 1868s have survived, in general, in FAR better condition than 1870s. Over the years I've only seen a couple of really nice ones.

Carlsr
10-01-2018, 02:09
Thank you Kragrifle But I'd have to agree with Dick Hosmer on this one. Going to a show next week at Oaks Pa. The Pa historical society will be there so maybe I'll find one??? Thought the Forks of the Delaware show was just this last weekend but marked it wrong on my calendar so needless to say the parking lot was empty!!! At least it was a nice day for a long drive LOL.

Carlsr
10-01-2018, 02:43
Not sure if this will paste but here is something odd on Guns International, not an 1870 but a 1873 Cadet. Don't think there was ever a scarce cadet model with an 1873 lock date and seems all other parts are later.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/springfield-rifles-trapdoor/us-springfield-cadet-rifle.cfm?gun_id=101107308

Kragrifle
10-03-2018, 05:14
You’re right. I found my 1870 years ago and haven’t seen a better one. Now, if I could just find it!��

Dick Hosmer
10-03-2018, 06:19
Not sure if this will paste but here is something odd on Guns International, not an 1870 but a 1873 Cadet. Don't think there was ever a scarce cadet model with an 1873 lock date and seems all other parts are later.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/springfield-rifles-trapdoor/us-springfield-cadet-rifle.cfm?gun_id=101107308

Looks like a decent second pattern M1884 Cadet, except for the lock plate. Who knows how that happened? Merz is from the old school, and a Winchester authority. He is a late-comer to TDs, and does not always get his descriptions spot-on, due to perpetuating some of the old misconceptions. That said, he is a gentleman and is more than willing to correct his errors.

70ish
10-04-2018, 01:47
It appears that this cadet has an 1888 trigger guard. Is that okay for a cadet?

Dick Hosmer
10-04-2018, 07:05
Yes, for the ones made after the stock of two-piece guards dried up, The M1888 guard was only made with a swivel, so those late cadets have upper band swivels as well. Cadets were the very last TDs made, up into the 567xxx range.

70ish
10-05-2018, 04:19
Thank, Dick!

Carlsr
10-05-2018, 03:14
From what I have read, I thought that cadet rifles did not have sling swivels?? I did read your response to 70ish so now I'm not sure how to actually spot a correct cadet, not that I'm in the market for one at the moment as I'm searching for a 1870 but one never knows what will come along???

Dick Hosmer
10-05-2018, 10:58
The early ones (1867, 1869, 1873, and many 1884s) did not. It was only after the new guard was adopted that they did. Of course, many had swivels added, post service.

Carlsr
10-06-2018, 12:56
Thanks Dick.
Saw a cadet rifle today that was in good shape but the stock had been sanded and a very shinny coating put on. Also saw another 1st Allin in awesome shape!!! One day maybe??