RIA 1903 Finished By Springfield Armory

[SoCal M1 Shooter]

Some years ago I got one of those Greek returned 1903 rifles from the CMP.

Recently I was looking through old emails and was unable to locate a brief email correspondence between J. Beard and myself regarding this rifle (in 2004). I'd like to be able to better document the story on this gun... at the time, it never occurred to me I'd lose track of the emails.

Anyway, the rifle has serial number in the 1.29 million range. The receiver is marked Springfield Armory, but it has an "O" stamped into the receiver below the serial number, and the barrel is dated 9-28.

From what I recall, the special significance of this rifle is that it was built from an RIA-made receiver which was finished at Springfield Armory. I believe John Beard indicated there was about 8000 such receivers that were assembled into rifles.

Any light that anyone can shed on this would be appreciated.

[kb1903]

You are correct about your receiver. I also have one, with the small "o" under the serial number. Mr. Beard also informed me of what it meant, but didn't say how many were known. Mine has a 1942 SA bbl, and a full pre war C stock with the drawing number on it. They were replacement receivers is what Mr. Beard said. I'm glad to have it. Hope that this helps. Paid $650 for it about 2 years ago. Ken

[the_1st_sgt]

I too, have one with the small "o" under the serial number. Mine is in the 1.27 M range as I recall. I bought it as a receiver only nearly 30 years ago now and was able to locate a really decent 12-28 bbl for it. It now rests in a type "S" stock with a boxed S.A. D A. L.

[Darreld Walton]

My rifle is right in that same s/n range, with the same marks, but was sitting in a Bishop stock, had been drilled and tapped, and the bolt handle altered, and had been buffed/blued. The inter-war years were pretty sparse as far as budget and demands went, and those pieces were used up, sometimes as "make-work" to keep staff employed and busy. IIRC, I heard mention that the RIA produced pieces were considered much like a red-headed step child by the SA folks. Please forgive if my memory has facts twisted a bit. JB outlined several variations of the RIA produced, SA finished material, from forgings, to unserialized receivers, to RIA s/n's with markings indicating finish work at SA... My memory isn't good enough today to remember the specifics off the top of my head, and perhaps JB will chime in again with clarification.

[SoCal M1 Shooter]

I did some searching last night and found this (http://www.m1903.com/qna_m1903/qna.php?expand=1151). I have Canfield's book on 1903s, but the detail below is a lot more granular than what Canfield wrote in 1989.



Questions on manf. date of 1,293,000 range SA M1903?
Date Answered: 04-17-2011
Name - jay

Question - I recently bought a 1903 springfield at a gun show and i've got a question about the ser. no. It's no.#1293780, bbl. date 2-29. I've looked at the charts indicating ser. and bbl. dates and they matched, but I've seen on here that some ser. no.s are less than mine by very little and were man. in the teens. any thoughts on this? thanks!

Answer:

I guess it depends what you call "very little" and what date of manufacture table you were using. Production of M1903s slowed to a relative trickle after WWI. For example, there were about 50,000 receivers manufactured over the space of about five years in the early 1920s, and most of them were probably made as "spare parts" and National Match rifles. You are correct that your rifle dates to about 1929 and the barrel is correct/original.

I would suggest you consult the following date manufacture table and confirm:

http://www.vishooter.net/sa_serialization.txt

There is something else that you might want to know about your rifle. The receiver was originally made at Rock Island, which produced M1903s from 1904 to 1913, and again, from 1917 to 1919. After production was stopped in mid-1919, the remaining parts, including thousands of receivers, were shipped to Springfield Armory, where they were mated with Springfield parts in the late 1920s and early 1930s.

The spare receivers were sent in four groups: a) raw forgings; b) complete, but unmarked receivers; c) complete receivers with "Rock Island Arsenal" on them but no serial numbers; d) complete receivers with RIA and serial numbers. Your receiver was either a) or b). If you look carefully just below the serial number, you should see a small "o" stamp. Virtually all Springfield M1903s from 1,290,000-1,301,000 were made up of these RIA receivers.

Probably the most interesting of these receivers were the ones with just "Rock Island Arsenal" and no serial numbers. When completed as rifles, these were given "high number" Springfield numbers in the 1,290,000 range (Rock Island serial numbers went only to about 430,000 or so). There are about 1500 of these "high number" receivers around. I have RIA 1,293,3257, which is close to yours, which was given the complete SA receiver markings and serial number.

If you'd like to read more about these "mixed" RIA/SA hybrids (of which your rifle was one), get a copy of C.S. Ferris' "Rock Island Rifle Model 1903", available in paperback for about $20-25, available online at several sources.

--Rick the Librarian

[twh]

44743Here is mine

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

WWI ended unexpectedly on 11 November 1918 with U.S. munitions production operating at a feverish pace preparing for a spring, 1919, military offensive. Springfield Armory had enough receiver steel in-house and under contract to last until April, 1927, at postwar production rates.

With the depletion of leftover WWI steel, Springfield Armory continued rifle parts production with leftover material from Rock Island Arsenal that had been shipped to them in March, 1926. This included receivers in four different stages of manufacture: (1) nickel steel billets and forged blanks, (2) receivers that had been machined and inspected, but were unmarked, (3) receivers that had been machined, inspected, and marked "U.S./ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL/MODEL 1903," but had no serial number, (4) receivers that had been machined, inspected, marked, and serialized, but were not heat treated and finished.

The category (1) receivers were manufactured as regular Springfield Armory receivers, have "NS" stamped on the front face of the receiver ring, and began with S/N 1275767. The category (2) receivers were marked, serialized, stamped with a small "o" above the serial number, and finished. The category (3) receivers were given a Springfield Armory serial number and finished. The category (4) receivers were heat treated and finished.

The receivers were processed in batches. For example, the category (3) receivers were processed in two separate batches and the category (2) receivers were processed in three or more separate batches. The category (4) receivers have scattered RIA serial numbers between S/N 375000 and S/N 400000 and almost all RIA receivers above S/N 400000. RIA receivers end at S/N 430742.

The Rock Island Arsenal steel and receivers were used to manufacture a few new National Match rifles and NRA Sporters, but most were used as replacements for low number receivers on rifles turned in for overhaul.

Springfield Armory finally ran out of Rock Island Arsenal nickel steel and receivers in December, 1928, at which time they began using new nickel steel from U.S. steel companies beginning with serial numbers just past S/N 1305000.

Merry Christmas!

J.B.

[SoCal M1 Shooter]

Greatly appreciate all the replies in the thread. This time I will save this information.

Mr. Beard, may I ask, the vishooter.net link that I cited indirectly in the "Rick the Librarian" quote upthread mentions



1927 Jan 1 - 1274765
Supply of carbon billets exhausted - a short period of mixed CS and NS receiver production follows
RIA NS billets used from April 1, 1927 with SN 1275767
RIA parts, bolts, stocks, barrels used at SA


Does this mean that RIA-made/SA-finished receivers with the "o" marking are not nickel steel? Is there any other significance attached to the letter "o" or was it just the mark they happened to choose?

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

All RIA/SA-finished receivers with the "o" marking are indeed nickel steel. I am not aware of any significance to the letter "o" other than it just happened to be the mark they chose.

The ViShooter statement means that, although S/N 1275767 was the first receiver made from RIA nickel steel, S/N 1275766 was NOT THE LAST double-heat-treated receiver.

Merry Christmas!

J.B.

[SoCal M1 Shooter]

Happy Christmas to you as well.

Would you (or anyone else reading the thread) happen to know of any sources that would provide reliable information on the Greek return 1903s? I know the US got involved in the late 1940s, so presumably that is when these rifles were provided to the Greeks. When were they returned?

I'm assuming most, if not all, of these RIA-finished 1903s were used in WWII. Is it reasonable to conclude that the presence of a "Hatcher Hole" in the left side of the receiver indicates the rifle was probably refurbished by the US Military before being provided to the Greeks? Are there other "tells" of refurbishment?

[John Beard]

Seasons' Greetings!

Answers are as follows:

(1) Yes.

(2) Very late 2001.

(3) Yes.

(4) Yes.

Merry Christmas!

J.B.

[togor]

Thank you, John, for posting that synopsis.