Like new M1884

[Carlsr]

Bought this rifle after Christmas at a gun shop down the street from me. I have been collecting Trapdoors for around 9 years now and though I'm no expert I feel I can tell the difference between a parts rifle and one that is all original. I posted this rifle on the Facebook group also. I recently had it appraised by an appraiser with many years of experience. He gave me a value based on his knowledge which was way more than I paid, he was quite envious of my find also. Recently someone told me that a while back surplus new parts were purchased and rifles built from those parts had been sold on the market bringing around 600.00. From what I can see this rifle is original and authentic. There are only 2 issues I have and that being the cleaning rod has a bend in it and there is an area around the trigger guard where the wood is about a 1/16 or a little more lower than the metal. I figure this could be accounted for wood shrinkage?? All metal has the same color and no screws are buggered. My question is could this be a parts rifle or as I feel a complete and original rifle?
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[Dick Hosmer]

While I can understand that you would care and would like to know, in that grade of condition, I don't think it is anything to actually worry about. Late production 1884s (460-475K, dated 1889) were, after adoption of the rod-bayonet model, stored in large quantities. Unopened full crates still existed into the 40's and 50's. But, while certainly possible on an individual basis, I've not heard of anyone making a business of assembling high-grade guns from parts. In all honesty and humility, aside from being beautiful to behold, there is really nothing to get excited about collector-wise, as they are the most common variety produced, thus the only choice for the man who wants a stunner but does not want to spend a fortune. I'd just enjoy your rifle, even shoot it - carefully so as not to damage the finish. Enjoy.

[Allen]

My brother came across a mint 1884 trapdoor back in the 70's. All the case hardening colors were present, the bluing was perfect, wood and stamps looked new as well as the bore. It was basically a brand new 80 year old gun at the time. He being a fan of the 45-70 cartridge had to shoot it. Then is when he found out why it was placed on the market. The rim would blow off of the cartridge so I suppose it never was head spaced. He traded it back in at the gun shop he bought it from and someone else immediately scooped it up. Somewhere that rifle is still going from owner to owner. Those that don't shoot it will feel they have come across a prize and keep it. Those that do shoot it will discover they have a turd and dispose of it.

[Dick Hosmer]

Interesting story! Other than allowing for exceptional circumstances that should NEVER have happened - great care was taken in manufacture and supposedly all arms were fired 5 rounds before application of the (P) stamp behind the trigger guard. Wonder if the gun might have been a put together?

Was he using the proper ammunition? As a fan, he probably was, but you never know. If reloads were involved, it is possible to throw a double charge of a light smokeless load into that huge case.

Bought my mint 1884 in 1971 for $300 but have never shot it.

[Allen]

Hey Dick. He wasn't reloading 45-70's back then so they were factory rounds bought at the same shop that the rifle came from. He shot it several times hoping the ammo was defective because he really wanted to keep the gun. All of them blew the rim (head) completely off.

Possibly it was re-barreled but if so I would think they would have checked it out afterward. There was no evidence of barrel replacement as far as finish goes so anyone who could do such a professional job would have done the head space too I'm thinking. It was obviously never issued. Perhaps it failed the proof test, got set aside and some government employee swiped it? It's been so long ago I don't remember a (P) stamp plus he didn't keep it long. He paid $175 for it I believe. I hope it isn't the one you have. Actually I think the purchase was made later than '71. He came out OK on the trade--He didn't lose any money. Still, a mint trapdoor is something nice to have around so it's always been missed.

[Carlsr]

Thanks Dick. My appraiser is in his 70's and told me stories of him and a friend buying unopened crates in the early 60's I think it was. They sold all of them and he is sorry now that his or his friend didn't keep any. The only one I herd of putting Trapdoors together were Bannerman but you can certainly spot one of those. I plan on enjoying it but don't think I will shoot it, at the moment that is.

[Dick Hosmer]

Well, Bannerman yes - but somehow I thought that the operation mentioned was more recent. I doubt very much that anything Bannerman did would still look "mint" today. Have no idea how the bad headspace situation developed, but I doubt it got out of SA that way.

[Major Tom]

What's the full serial number? I bought one from Al Frasca a few years ago which is in pristine condition. My serial number is 472632. I have shot several reloads thru it using BP only and 500 grain bullets. Kicks like a mule!

[Carlsr]

Yes Dick, I believe the person meant someone more recent but I only know of Bannerman which was some time ago.

- - - Updated - - -

Major Tom,Mine is 445579. Al just had a couple on his site in this range. I believe one was priced at 2395.00 and another around 2200. Both are now sold.

[Dick Hosmer]

What's the full serial number? I bought one from Al Frasca a few years ago which is in pristine condition. My serial number is 472632. I have shot several reloads thru it using BP only and 500 grain bullets. Kicks like a mule!

Ahh yes, you're the guy who always makes me do a double-take - mine is 462732! :1948: