Early Cartridges

[45govt]

Hello
Posting these here as can not on TD collector.com, will link this on that board.

Here are some early and interesting cartridges

R F 3 77
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/414135394.jpg

Raised US CARBINE headstamp
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/414135393.jpg

full length view
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/414135392.jpg

Centennial souvenir
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/414135391.jpg

Lined Cartridge used instead of wads
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/124187512.jpg

[LeeT]

Thanks for posting Don. I'm the OP on TDC - it's always frustrating not to have photos over there.
That's a very nice carbine round. I've read it was too expensive to HS and only lasted about a month in 1874.
And I've never seen the US Centennial......the primer looks wonky, is it a live round or a souvenier?
Here's my earliest (in open box)452564525745258
lee

[Dick Hosmer]

That's not a funny-shaped primer - GRIN - the Centennial case was inside-primed, just like yours. Nice boxful BTW! Did you get it that way or have you been filling it as you find them?

[LeeT]

Hi Dick,
Thanks! I should have known it was IP, didn't think it through.
My dad got the box in the 30's, I think from Bannerman but not sure. He had bought a starred carbine, M73 and M88RRB from the Island, may have gotten the box from a LGS. We used to laugh about the RR Station Master's reaction when as a young teenager he picked up those long boxes from Bannerman. The label is way cool - even though most of the pieces are there the box is very fragile with a couple seams separated. Look close, you can see the rubber band holding in the ctgs. from the missing end flap The rounds (18) are original to the box, so they're all rifle 45-70-405. I'm pretty sure Pop and his brother shot the 2 missing rounds - until G'ma spotted them - would've LOVED to see that!!

[45govt]

Here are a couple more special items from the Tom Trevor collection

Thanks Tom

Early carbine box full and sealed
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/6193311/414136565.jpg

Bet not many have seen or know about this one

[LeeT]

So I've learned a lot over the past couple weeks between TDC, IAA an this web site.
So the carbine ctgs in the 1875 box pictured are UN-head stamped, and they are virtually identical to the rifle ctgs of the same period (except for the powder charge)? Correct?

Must have been hard on the regimental Quartermasters keeping it straight for that 2-3 year period.
Was all ammunition issued in these marked boxes to prevent confusion at the troop level? I suppose they had it figured out.

[Dick Hosmer]

Once out of the boxes, there was really NO way to tell, in the field, what you had, until headstamping began. When the rifle load went to 500gr (1881) and they pulled the wads from the carbine (1886) the "R" and "C" were finally omitted, leaving only date and factory marks.

[free1954]

nice informative thread. thanks to all who posted.

[Dick Hosmer]

One more point - the late Paul Parsons (a well-known SoCal ammo collector) told me - around 1980 or so - that he had fired fairly large quantities (before it became scarce) of IP .45-70 ammo, some almost 100 years old when used, with "about a 90%" success rate! So, even though it may look ancient, it should still be handled with respect and care.