737 Max 8 - It Might Be Awhile

[togor]

Watching this 60 Minutes - Australia program on the Max 8. Some good background info in there. Not a pretty story from a Boeing perspective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytfYyHmxtc

[lyman]

problems aside, (and boeing has them) that was like watching a TV drama,,

lots of drama

[Clark Howard]

Lies and drama are the tools of the trade for the xxxxxxx.

[togor]

The point is that Boeing really blew it. Yes melodrama in there too but geeze, to go with a single sensor because a dual sensor solution would have required pilots to go back into the sim....a place they'll be going anyways now...just a terrible business decision. One wonders if moving HQ to Chicago has stripped away some of the aviation culture that served long and well.

[Tuna]

Clark that is really not called for. In this case Togor is right. Boeing screwed up big time and is now taking it on the chin and it is deserved.

[jon_norstog]

The point is that Boeing really blew it. Yes melodrama in there too but geeze, to go with a single sensor because a dual sensor solution would have required pilots to go back into the sim....a place they'll be going anyways now...just a terrible business decision. One wonders if moving HQ to Chicago has stripped away some of the aviation culture that served long and well.

I was living in N. Idaho when Boeing closed down so much of it's Seattle operation. It really knocked the northwest US job market into the toilet. I think that's when the aviators, engineers and flyers got eased out of management. My ex-wife worked at one of the post-breakup dispersed factories when it started up in Spokane, it was all new people, a lot of carbon fiber structural work for planes - 777s - that were assembled in North Carolina IIRC. It was a union shop, which gave her a real boost and benefits to boot. It was nowhere near what the Seattle workers were getting before....


jn

[lyman]

The point is that Boeing really blew it. Yes melodrama in there too but geeze, to go with a single sensor because a dual sensor solution would have required pilots to go back into the sim....a place they'll be going anyways now...just a terrible business decision. One wonders if moving HQ to Chicago has stripped away some of the aviation culture that served long and well.

no doubt Boeing messed up, and it cost lives,

[Former Cav]

I still say that a lot of this was due to pilot error.
yes, Boeing did not tell them to turn off the switch. However, pilots over seas do not get the same training and testing that US pilots do. I believe it was written up on this very web site about a man who tested pilots for S. Korea
they were GOOD on the text book stuff, but when it came to having to THINK and "what ifs" then they were not so hot.

[barretcreek]

a
they were GOOD on the text book stuff, but when it came to having to THINK and "what ifs" then they were not so hot.[/QUOTE]

There was an article a while ago (maybe the one Cav is referencing) about the hierarchy of Asian command structures and the unwillingness to deviate from the rote. That said, Boeing appears to have a cultural problem if they eased out engineer/pilot thinking in the R&D process in favor (mis)management wonks.

REMFs always spill other people's blood.

[Clark Howard]

The design and manufacture of any airframe involves many, many compromises and value decisions. Over the years, Boeing has been very successful in making these choices. That being said, any airplane will kill you, especially if you do not understand the design parameters of it's design. The very statement that the pilots did not know what to do to remedy the failure says it all. Regards, Clark

[RED]

The design and manufacture of any airframe involves many, many compromises and value decisions. Over the years, Boeing has been very successful in making these choices. That being said, any airplane will kill you, especially if you do not understand the design parameters of it's design. The very statement that the pilots did not know what to do to remedy the failure says it all. Regards, Clark

Between the 2 crashes there were something like 8,000 737 Max flights and to this day no one has claimed to know if the cause was the same in both crashes. Lion Air had 10, 737's and Ethiopian Air had just 2. This may bankrupt Boeing and after all the bad publicity even if they find the cause and fix it, the plane will have such a bad reputation, it's usefulness is over. In the real world, the odds are pilot error will be a big part of what happened.

[Allen]

It may be best for Boeing to discontinue the 737. It will always have a bad reputation especially now. Perhaps Boeing could offer discounts toward other makes or offer a buyback program for carriers that already own them.

I know the 737 is one of if not the most used plane so you will hear more bad about it than others even if they are all the same, safety wise. Still, this is quite a list (below).

I would never feel comfortable flying in a 737 and this has been the case long before the Max 8 came out. It seems every time there's a crash it's an Airbus or a 737, seldom a 757, 747, 767, 777 or even a 727. What I remember most about the older 737 crashes is the deployment of one of the trust reversers activating during flight putting the plane into an uncontrollable spin. I don't have any need to fly so "what me worry"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boei ng_737

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/boeing-pilots-grill-officials-on-787-max-safety-171238960.html

[togor]

Not pilot error if MCAS kicks in and pilots have no info on it and have to fight to control the plane every 5 seconds in 15. Possibly maintenance problems if sensors are not properly serviced. But the catastrophic-single-failure aspect of the platform is now confirmed by pretty much everyone including Boeing.

[Allen]

This just in for what it's worth.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7045659/Boeing-acknowledges-flaw-737-MAX-simulator-software.html