What do you believe?

[S.A. Boggs]

Have been seriously thinking about changing calibers from .45 ACP to 9MM basically due to cost of shooting. 9 can be hand at give away prices now in most venues. I also watchrd a report on YouTube regarding modern 9vs45 using ballistic gelatin as a reference point. I also saw a person using real world data in regards to hit and down probability...i.e. relative stopping power in the real world.
I have seen/attended people shot with various calibers so I have some first hand knowledge. The gelatin is impressive, so is the cinder block "test" as well. Problem is that none of them is actual living tissue in a live situation. I did some research on why the Army chose the 1911 and the .45acp as the cartridge. The testing was done on live cattle in a stock yard as well as against human corpses. The test would not be done today due to "sensitivity" of modern people so the results are the one's done over 100 years ago. IMHO the .45 with a JHP is still on tops due to one thing for me and that I trust the round to do it's job! What say ye?
Sam

[bruce]

No experience with anything other than deer and hogs. All were shot under normal field conditions. Some were running. All shot with .30-06 fired from full length USGI rifles ... 03-A3 or M-1 Garand. All but one were one shot. None got up after being shot. None were gut shot, etc. Always immediately reloaded and prepared if needed to make a second shot. The one deer that required more than one shot was my first buck. It was in a swamp. Shot him in the top of the lung. I was inexperienced. Fired two more shots b/c I thought he was going to get up and run. Guess all that practice working the bolt kicked in. All the subsequent shots did was make holes in a dead deer.

All were solid hits in the chest. Have see same results w/ other calibers. Have seen bad hits with various calibers ranging all the way up to 7mm Magnum produce wounded running animals that required trailing and finishing. Have been called to help find such animals hours after wounding. A lot of them were by then dead. To many were still alive. Sad. The problem was never the caliber used or the bullet used. The problem was and always has been failure to get a good solid hit.

As said earlier, no experience with anything but deer, hogs, etc. But the principles are not different with other things. A pistol is not a death ray. Normal common everyday service caliber pistols will not drop a human being unless a good solid hit is made in the heart/lungs or central nervous system. With a good hit, result will be no different than with deer, hogs. With a bad hit, results will be about the same as with deer, hogs.

Real advantage of ballistic gel is it provides a consistent repeatable testing medium. This is not the case with cement blocks, wood, newspaper, milk jugs filled with water, etc. As well ballistic gel suits the interests of those who want to be able to more closely control for particular concerns such as penetration, expansion, etc.

I have a number of handguns of various calibers. Typically a 9mm is on the bedside table. It can be easily replaced with a .45 ACP or a .38/.357 Mag. There have been times when a little .22 LR Ruger Mk. II was pressed into service. All would have been more than capable if needed in an emergency. None would have done much good without a solid hit(s).

[lyman]

was a died in the wool 45 guy for a long time,

now, I carry what I can, comfort wise,

sometimes a Seecamp LWS32
sometimes a Hi Standard Derringer in 22 mag,

usually it is a S&W 40 Centennial,

all fit in the pocket well,


house guns are 2 12ga pumps, and a 9 and 45 ..

when I feel the need or have a thought about something bigger it's either a 1911 commander, 45acp, a SIG 220, 45acp ,or a SIG P6, in 9mm

not worried about stopping power, all will do the job at the distances I would be using them

[Clark Howard]

As the weapons guy told me 50+ years ago, "Shot is shot". It is more important to hit the target than to worry about the caliber. Regards, Clark

[Sunray]

"...9 vs 45..." That's been covered repeatedly by the assorted gun rags for eons. The entire thing comes down to shot placement and very little else.
"...relative stopping power..." There's no such thing as 'stopping power'. Relative or otherwise. No pistol cartridge, the .45 ACP included, will give you a 100% guarantee of stopping anything.
"...fit in the pocket..." That's almost as bad as using an ankle holster.

[Allen]

One person's candy is another persons poison. I often step on toes here when discussing ammo or guns unintentionally. Sometimes I'm just too opinionated I guess. I personally feel the 9mm and the 223 cartridge both have no place in our armed services especially when we already had better and well proven equipment. These are 2 of your favorites though and it's basically a case of "whatever cranks your tractor" or what your specific use would be. I have 40's and 45acp's but prefer revolvers because of the extra firepower strength available and the reliability. If you ever have a need to defend yourself the 9mm would be fine at point blank range. Even the Germans who originated the 9 had them "hot loaded" for the use in the MP-40's somewhat admitting the 9mm was underpowered. Where do you draw the line? At some point you're just going to make someone mad if you have to shoot them. Would this be with a 25acp, 32acp, 380 or a 9mm? I'm assuming at our age and eyesight you are wanting this for self protection and not target practice. Enjoy whatever you purchase and hopefully you'll never HAVE to use it.

[m1ashooter]

I'm wearing a 1911 in 45acp as I write this. I also have a 9mm. I'm ok with both. I actually prefer the 1911 because is slimmer and it hugs my fat body better.

[Roadkingtrax]

Don't go where you feel scared enough to question what you need to carry to be safe.

[lyman]

"...9 vs 45..." That's been covered repeatedly by the assorted gun rags for eons. The entire thing comes down to shot placement and very little else.
"...relative stopping power..." There's no such thing as 'stopping power'. Relative or otherwise. No pistol cartridge, the .45 ACP included, will give you a 100% guarantee of stopping anything.
"...fit in the pocket..." That's almost as bad as using an ankle holster.

I can reach in my front pocket and draw my Seecamp, from a small leather holster, or my Smith J frame, from a kramer holster, just as easily as I can pull my Colt, or SIG's from my hip,

with all things, practice makes you better,


curious, can yall even carry in Canada? (off topic I know)