Help with family heirloom 1863 Springfield.

[cornhskr]

I posted in another forum and was told to come here. Link to other post with more pics. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Help-Family-heirloom-1863-or-1868-Springfield-Great-great-grandfathers-rifle-/16-501456/?r=-1&page=1&anc=5150736#i5150736

My great great grandfathers rifle. Would love to know more. What caliber is this trapdoor?

[Tkacook]

This is an 1868 model Springfield Trapdoor made in 1869. The lock is from a Springfield musket from 1863 as they reused parts. The caliber is 50-70 government. Nice looking example.

[Dick Hosmer]

You have a Model 1868 rifle, as made at Springfield Armory in 1869/70.

The caliber is .50-70 - which is still available, from niche suppliers, today. Many hundreds, if not thousands, of such guns are still in use.

Your GGF could have served in the Civil War, but this rifle (as presently assembled) did not. The reason for the 1863 date is that SA had tons of leftover muzzle-loading parts which could be incorporated into to the later breechloaders. The earlier M1865s and M1866s WERE "conversions", but the 1868s were all made new (albeit with some salvaged parts). That may seem to be a fine distinction, but it is what actually happened. CW muskets were NOT returned to the Armory for modification following the war, by private individuals.

Yours appears to be in above-average condition, and, with one possible exception, completely "correct". Value would be around $1,500 - $2,000 or so, but I always recommend keeping such guns in the family.

That is not the tulip-head cleaning rod. Such items were used on the M1865 only.

I did not find any reference to that exact number. Approximately 52,500 such guns were made - a handful were dated 1868, about 16,000 were dated 1869. with the balance being dated 1870. Your breechblock MAY have been interchanged at some point as it does not "match" the serial. This is a very small point.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any other questions.

You might like my little guidebook ("The .58 and .50 caliber Rifles & Carbines of the Springfield Armory, 1865-1872") on the subject. For a signed copy, send $17.00 to POB 1367 Colusa CA 95932.

[cornhskr]

Thank you for the replies! Most definitely will stay in the family. GGF did most certainly serve in the civil war, 20th Wisconsin Infantry. I figured the rifle did not.

[Fred]

Cool rifle

[70ish]

Did your GGF ever live in or near Illinois? I looked at the photos you have on the other forum and it looks like the engraving you have on the bottom of the stock could be for "Co D Ill5" which might mean the 5th regiment of the Illinois National Guard, Company D. It could also just mean that the rifle at one time had been issued to the Illinois unit. The metal has been polished (carefully) and the wood looks to have been refinished (also carefully) and what might have been 3 cartouches were removed in the process. The receiver was originally finished a a dark shade like the inside surfaces of the chamber and trapdoor. It's possible that the door was switched then, but I have seen many close numbers with 1869 or 1870. As Dick said, that's not a big deal since all the metal parts look otherwise correct and to have been together for a long time. Maybe the Illinois National Guard sold off their inventory after they had cleaned it up. Residents of Wisconsin could have participated in the sale pretty easily. During the period of 1865 to 1873, there were many troops from Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin and even Illinois who served at least some periods as backup troops to garrison the forts and camps during the Plains Indian Wars. The 1866 was probably the first rifle the Infantry would have used (at the Wagon Box fight of 1868 during Red Cloud's War), but as the years went by, each Springfield model would have had some presence until the 1873's were available in sufficient numbers. As a side note, there is even an 1865 Model in the museum at Fort Phil Kearny in Wyoming.

By the way, that discharge certificate you have is a real treasure. Most don't have any of the details appearing on yours! Someone really cared about the history of the soldier and went out of the way to make sure it wouldn't be forgotten. There are many clues there to be researched. Congratulations.

[cornhskr]

70ish

I don't believe our family had any connection to Illinois. Makes sense about the engraving on the stock being from an Illinois unit. Thank you for posting more information. The mustered out/discharge paper is in fact a family treasure for us. In fact, the original is on loan, to a county museum in Nebraska where my GGF homesteaded after the war.