I'm thinning out my carbines...

[Brad in Idaho]

I have finally decided to let 6 of my M1 carbines go. Pricing them is confusing me. All are CMP SG rifles purchased in 2008 (Italian returns).

Makers are Rockola, Quality Hardware, Saginaw, National Postal Meter, Saginaw S'G', and Standard Products. I know the Rockola and Saginaw S'G' are probably more collectible than some of the others but how much more collectible? I have looked at completed sales on Gunbroker and prices seem to vary quite a lot. All these rifles meet CMP requirements for SG's and I have fired them all. All function properly and have good solid wood stocks. Some stocks are a little more dinged than others, but all are sound. Metal finishes vary, but all are in at least good+ shape. No sling, oiler or magazine came with these rifles, I bought repro slings/oilers and got GI magazines from CMP for each. Any thoughts on general prices for these rifles? One other plus is I have the boxes these rifles were shipped in and ALL the paperwork that came with them.
Click on the link for pictures. http://www.fototime.com/inv/726595D8F46911C

[lyman]

go thru them and do up a data sheet for each


not to offend anyone, but carbine collectors are some of the most OCD folks I have ever met, you will likely get 2,589 questions no matter where you post them for sale,

CMP will bring a bit of a premium for no other reason than it's a CMP gun,

all correct will bring a high price point, down to just the receiver is made by xxx,,,a much lower price point

and of course condition, condition, condition,

[m1ashooter]

Prices on Gun Broker might be the place to start.

[Brad in Idaho]

go thru them and do up a data sheet for each


not to offend anyone, but carbine collectors are some of the most OCD folks I have ever met, you will likely get 2,589 questions no matter where you post them for sale,

CMP will bring a bit of a premium for no other reason than it's a CMP gun,

all correct will bring a high price point, down to just the receiver is made by xxx,,,a much lower price point

and of course condition, condition, condition,

I will not do a data sheet for each. I am NOT selling these rifles for parts. They are shooters, they are mixmasters and I really don't want to see them sold to someone who just wants to part them out. Condition is EXACTLY how they arrived from the CMP, I will provide pictures related to condition, but will NOT do close ups of every part to identify each maker. Sorry but I'm not desperate to sell these rifles. I would really like to see them go to those who appreciate their history for what they are and not for which of their parts are "collectible", if that means I don't get top dollar for them, so be it. I'd like to see them go to people who will take them out and shoot them.

I thought I made it clear what these rifles are in my original post. They ARE NOT all correct rifles (which probably DON'T even exist), they are NOT being represented as such, they ARE CMP Service Grade rifles and nice working examples of this type of rifle. To me, it's about the history of the rifle, not all the tiny little details of each part. I don't mean to be rude, but my rifles are what they are and I just need some input about values of them as they are.

[Marty T.]

I have a QHMC that is in the same condition as the ones you have and I have been asking $850 for it. It has quite a bit of interest but as yet no bites. So in that range is where you could start and if you want then you can come down a little, but I wouldn't go much lower.

[Gun Smoke]

Any prices suggested would be a guess or a range due to condition and parts.

I can understand you not wanting to take the bolt apart ( I wouldn't either ) but most other parts ID only involve removal of the stock and buyers shelling out hundreds are going to want to know the manufacturers but your call--your guns.

As m1ashooter suggested, completed auctions from GB are a good source as to what the general public will pay currently.

Good luck.

[lyman]

I will not do a data sheet for each. I am NOT selling these rifles for parts. They are shooters, they are mixmasters and I really don't want to see them sold to someone who just wants to part them out. Condition is EXACTLY how they arrived from the CMP, I will provide pictures related to condition, but will NOT do close ups of every part to identify each maker. Sorry but I'm not desperate to sell these rifles. I would really like to see them go to those who appreciate their history for what they are and not for which of their parts are "collectible", if that means I don't get top dollar for them, so be it. I'd like to see them go to people who will take them out and shoot them.

I thought I made it clear what these rifles are in my original post. They ARE NOT all correct rifles (which probably DON'T even exist), they are NOT being represented as such, they ARE CMP Service Grade rifles and nice working examples of this type of rifle. To me, it's about the history of the rifle, not all the tiny little details of each part. I don't mean to be rude, but my rifles are what they are and I just need some input about values of them as they are.

OK then,


as someone who is in the business, I was just trying to help you prepare for the questions and comments you may get when you put these online or on your table etc,

beg you pardon IF THAT offended,


FWIW,
I recently sold a S,G, mostly correct (and may have been a CMP , not sure, no paperwork, but others in the collect were) for $1600, and a NPM mixmaster for $1500


The RockOla may bring the same,

the rest, slightly less,


however, keep in mind I am on the EAST coast,, prices often vary by region

[Tuna]

What others have sold carbines for in their areas doesn't mean those prices apply in your area. Prices seem to be area dependent with carbines. What would have been in my old area a $1000 carbine is only $800 where I am now. In general a good CMP carbine will be in the $900 range + or -. A Rock-Ola in the $1200 range same with a Winchester. An import marked carbine is a good $100 to $150 less. Condition is everything with these. Some feel the FAT marked stocks of the Italian returns devalue a carbine. In reality its part of the carbines history. But carbine collectors can be very anal retentive but that is their problems. Just be aware of them.

[Gun Smoke]

People wanting carbines for shooters aren't going to be concerned about make and correct parts as much as price. They would rather buy a commercial Plainfield or import marked GI carbine in order to buy it cheap. Your rifles are too good for that. As a seller I would think you would want as much as possible for your guns and that would be to reach as many people as possible.

The local gun and pawn shops would never put a Rock-ola carbine on the rack in hopes that someone off the street would come in and pay $1200. Instead, they would put it on GB or some other public listing service and sell it quickly and perhaps for more.

Same with guitars. A rare 1959 Gibson Les Paul isn't going to sell locally for the $10,000 it is worth but will bring that if published across the land. I've asked the pawn shops why do you not have guitars over the $150 mark? Don't people sell you the better stuff? The answer was when something nice comes in to the store it goes straight to ebay. In the case of a high dollar gun it would go straight to GB or other sources.

Generally speaking, six CMP carbines by the makers you've listed, in the condition you've listed, should bring $5K to $7K. Will the local folks come to your house with these funds?

[Sunray]

"...They are shooters, they are mixmasters..." That does not mean that the condition doesn't matter. Gunbroker or one of the other auction sites, will give you a ball park estimate if nothing else.
Keep on mind that there is no such thing as an "All correct Carbine." That's an internet myth, Anybody who tries to tell you they have one is confused. Or they made it that way. None of the makers made all the parts. Parts were made all over the Eastern U.S. And some makers made nothing but receivers with all the rest coming from those wee shops. And the Italians worked on 'em.
Like Tuna says, where you are matters. Like everything else, prices will vary from place to place.
You can get the numbers made aznd how many parts by maker here.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/

[Brad in Idaho]

OK then,


as someone who is in the business, I was just trying to help you prepare for the questions and comments you may get when you put these online or on your table etc,

beg you pardon IF THAT offended,


FWIW,
I recently sold a S,G, mostly correct (and may have been a CMP , not sure, no paperwork, but others in the collect were) for $1600, and a NPM mixmaster for $1500


The RockOla may bring the same,

the rest, slightly less,


however, keep in mind I am on the EAST coast,, prices often vary by region

No offense. I don't mean to be short but I also don't want to sell to someone who just wants to scavenge parts. If that means they go for less, I'm OK with that. Anyone who questions what parts are made by what manufacturer will be told it is a grab bag. You buy what the CMP sent me originally. I have done nothing with these rifles other than thoroughly clean, inspect and test fire them. No parts swapping was done.

[Brad in Idaho]

I am in the process of photographing each of these rifles. Pics are exterior with rifles assembled. When I'm done, I'll post them here. At least they will be an indicator of condition.

Note to GunSmoke, it is extremely unlikely that I will realize maximum prices for my rifles in my region, but selling locally has the advantages of:

1) Transfers between private parties in Idaho are very simple. Washington residents must do a transfer through a dealer ($20 at Idaho dealers) and fill out a 4473 which hasn't been a problem with some other rifles I have sold.

2) I pay no sales commission.

3) I don't have to package and ship a firearm.

I'm going to try advertising locally first, if that doesn't work I will look into other means.

[twh]

The problem is that even with shooter carbines the parts on the rifle effect the value. The fact of who you bought them from might factor in slightly but not enough to justify any randomly assigned value. At a minimum you need to list the barrel receiver combo or your going to have a hard time setting or justifying a price. Kind of like selling a classic car but refusing to open the hood and tell buyers what kind of engine it has.

[Brad in Idaho]

The problem is that even with shooter carbines the parts on the rifle effect the value. The fact of who you bought them from might factor in slightly but not enough to justify any randomly assigned value. At a minimum you need to list the barrel receiver combo or your going to have a hard time setting or justifying a price. Kind of like selling a classic car but refusing to open the hood and tell buyers what kind of engine it has.

Rock-Ola (Oct-Dec 1943) has a Rock-Ola barrel dated 5-43 P under band/bayo lug

Quality Hardware (July-Sept 1943) Underwood barrel dated 12-43 flaming bomb and a P

Saginaw (sometime between May 1943 and April 1944) Underwood barrel 1-44 flaming bomb and a P

National Postal Meter (Oct-Dec 1943) Underwood barrel 9-43 and flaming bomb

Saginaw S'G' (sometime between May 1943 and January 1944) Underwood barrel 8-43 and flaming bomb

Standard Products (April-June 1944) Underwood barrel 2-44 and flaming bomb

Aside from the Rock-Ola, do you see any significance in these receiver barrel combinations? The only thing this tells ME is that all of these rifles MAY have original barrels judging by the receiver dates (determined by serial numbers) which if I understand may or may not be correct. I'm sure there are people who get into the minute details of each part. Garand collectors do it and from what I've seen carbine collectors are much worse but I still think a LOT of people just want to have an M1 Carbine for the history and to shoot. Plenty don't have a clue about the significance of different manufacturers, dates, parts, etc. I guess those are the folks I'll be selling to.

[twh]

Assuming the Saginaw is an S.G. it doesn’t have its original barrel the others may be correct.

[Tuna]

Which book are you using to try and date your carbines with? Most of the dates you listed for serial numbers are out of line and the barrel dates would be too for being original to the receivers.

[Brad in Idaho]

Which book are you using to try and date your carbines with? Most of the dates you listed for serial numbers are out of line and the barrel dates would be too for being original to the receivers.

I honestly don't remember. I have had these rifles for 10 to 12 years and documented them when I first got them. I'm thinking the info was online somewhere. Can anyone provide a link to accurate information?