How Rare is a 1895 Dated Krag Bayonet??

[P51MUSTANG]

This past weekend I picked up a 1895 dated Krag bayonet. I knew it looked different with some scattered blueing on the blade. From what info I found about 10k or so were blued in 94 and 95 but the practice was stopped. How rare is this bayo, and what is it worth in overall good shape and unsharpened? Thanks.....

[Dick Hosmer]

I'd have to look, but IIRC it was only the"1894" ones that were blued, and not all of them.

Blued specimens - especially those proven to be arsenal work - are extremely rare. "1895" would be one of the less-common dates, but I'm not sure it would be "rare", and if the bluing is not original would detract from the value. Has it been re-gripped, or are the original flush/polished rivets intact? Do you have the scabbard? It should have the simple sheet-metal hook, not one of the later formed wire ones. With original grips and scabbard, I'd think around $250 or so, not counting for the bluing, assuming it is a later addition.

[70ish]

According to Brophy's book, the Board of Ordnance reported that the bluing of bayonet blades was stopped April 1, 1895. He also reports that he had seen seen only one bayonet that he considered to have shown original blue finish. I have two bayonets, both dated 1894 that show from a small amount of blue to maybe 20%. The blue that remains on both is found in the fuller on one and only a limited amount on the upper flat between the fuller and the hilt on the other. I have read, I think that there were a few of the 1895 dated blades that were blued, but I cannot recall now where I saw the information. Both of my blued bayonets have been sharpened and have been used, but even so, the blue is obviously a brighter color than, say a barrel. It is more of the color of the extractor, but not quite as bright. If the bayonet rivets are of the later type I would be certain that the blue blade was not original. Since the wood grips and their rivets could only be repaired at the arsenal, I'm sure they would not have kept a blued blade in service. It would be unlikely that any blued blades would be allowed to be used after the bright blade was adopted - if for no reason other than the uniformity when on parade. I also would be suspicious of an unsharpened blade. Given the rarity of their survival, the blued blades that have survived were likely those of personnel who kept them as souvenirs of their service and used. Just my thoughts, though I've been known to be wrong many, many times. As recently as this morning according to my wife.

[P51MUSTANG]

I appreciate your replies and will definitely start researching this bayonet.

[70ish]

If you can posi any photos we should be able to give you much better opinion of your bayonet. And photos of the scabbard, too, if you can. The early scabbards are collectible by themselves and their differences from the later issues are easy to see. Photos of the throat opening, the swivel mechanism, and the overall appearance of these parts will tell everything. The bodies of the scabbard itself were all the same. (The blue of the scabbard was not same as found on the blade). Values for a blued blade have always been good even though many, like mine, are in well worn condition. That may have been the reason they survived - they were “too worn to bother to return or to fix” five or ten years ago a blue bayonet could bring 350 and up, but today, sadly like so many things, prices have been hurt. Dick’s price was close to right. I wish they could still easily bring 400 and more, but today’s market isn’t as big as before. If yours is correct as,far as you describe, it could be, being dated 1895, the exception to the rule. Sharpened or not is not as much a factor for value of these, but the scabbard details will be. I hope you have found a survivor!!

[Dick Hosmer]

GREAT answers, 70ish!! I have GOT to stop depending solely on my memory and look stuff up before responding.

[70ish]

You're very kind, Dick, but you can't stop depending solely on your memory. Many times it's going to be nearly impossible to look stuff up until you can remember where you saw it last. Unless, of course, there's no need to wait for the epiphany to strike you if you can come up with another timely answer. It's been wonderful to see you back with us! When we found that you were going to experience the joy of a bypass, I warned you that it wouldn't be fun, but it would be enlightening. The new memory procedures can be similarly enlightening.

[P51MUSTANG]

Again thank you all for your wealth of knowledge and help!

[Kragrifle]

Don Hartman has produced the best, and only book on the Krag bayonet, The blued 1894 bayonets are rare indeed. The 1895 blued bayonet was only produced for a few months . I have seen only one nice blued 1895 specimen previously owned by the only living expert on the Krag and now owned by Mr. Hartman.

[coastie]

Folk, Collector's Firearms in Houston, Texas has an old line catalog with photos.
The prices...are scary for bayonets. But that is their retail.
Gotta pay clerks, rent, owner's family/groceries/..boat?
Don't try to sell there, an observation.

[Fred]

Long ago, a buddy of mine, George (Chips) Hensel noticed a bayonet on another friends table at a Missouri Valley show that had a nitrate blue blade. It had an 1894 date and was in a mint early hook scabbard, that was a second model with the square cornered throat.
The bayonet was pretty mint and only had a little wear from the new owner who was slipping the mint blade in and out of the scabbard in the wrong direction and off center of the offset internal spring guide that was meant to fit into the blade groove.
the guy who had just bought it from someone at the show didn't know the significance of the bayonet.
while talking to my buddy, he continued to slide the blade in and out of the scabbard, causing wear on the bayonet as they spoke.
Finally George just reached over and took the bayonet and scabbard away from the other fellow to stop the desecration of the blade, which was otherwise minty.
George got the bayonet and scabbard for $150.00 and later sold it to our friend Bill Mook for I believe $500.00. That was back in the 1980’s.
Bill was overjoyed.

[Kragrifle]

Interesting that the few months the blued 1895 bayonets were produced coincided with the very short period of time the early hook scabbards with parallel throats were the standard.

[cowtownscout]

I know its not dated 1895 but I finally took some photos of my blued bayonet dated 1894. It defiantly shows some hard use which is fine with me.

https://i.imgur.com/6yWtUIf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lnq7jQO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gsLuers.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JsHyVT7.jpg

This pic shows the blued bayonet next to a bright bayonet for comparison.

https://i.imgur.com/mCXToeO.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

Lots of "character" there! Is that a 'keystone' scabbard?

[cowtownscout]

Unfortunately I don’t believe it is as the opening does not appear trapezoidal to me and the bayonet will go in turned either way. However I have never seen a photo of what the Keystone opening looks like. I would appreciate if you could post a photo of yours.

https://i.imgur.com/n6KyNPk.jpg

In addition there is a hole where the limiting pin was most likely removed by someone so the hanger loop would spin 360 degrees. When I look in the hole and move the hanger I can see the limiting grove in the hanger so this also leads me to conclude this is a type 2 hanger with the limiting pin removed.

https://i.imgur.com/CzSbLne.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

I completely agree with your analysis.

The trapezoidal hole is just BARELY so - easily missed.

My stuff is all packed away just now but I'll post some pics when I can.

[Kragrifle]

OK, here goes . First the photo of the three model hook scabbards. First we gave the earliest style with sharp edge on the hook, no limiting pin and non parallel opening. This would have been the scabbard with the early blued 1894 bayonets.4750247502475034750447505

[Kragrifle]

Next we have the transition scabbard with sharp edges on the hook, no limiting pin but with parallel sides on the opening. This is the only one of these I have seen and came with a worn blued 1894 bayonet. Likely produced only a short period of time around March of 1895.47506475074750847509

[Kragrifle]

Finally we have the third, more common hook scabbard. This will have rounded edges on the hook, parallel opening and pin limiting rotation of the hook. This was produced up to around August of 1899 when the final more common belt attachment scabbard, Model 1899 was introduced.47511475124751347514

[Kragrifle]

So, the three points of comparison are
1. The opening
2. The edge at the top of the hook
3. The presence or absence of a pin limiting travel of the hook475154751647517

- - - Updated - - -

The above concerns standard rifle length scabbards. Cadet length scabbards are another story with at least five variations.

[Dick Hosmer]

Beat me to it (not hard to do) good pics!

As I said, the trapezoidal cut certainly does NOT scream at you.:icon_lol:

[cowtownscout]

So, the three points of comparison are
1. The opening
2. The edge at the top of the hook
3. The presence or absence of a pin limiting travel of the hook475154751647517

- - - Updated - - -

The above concerns standard rifle length scabbards. Cadet length scabbards are another story with at least five variations.


Thank You - Great explanation and photos - now I know what to look for.