USS Theodore Roosevelt

[togor]

15 days ago the ship put in a port call at Da Nang. Now there are Covid-19 cases on board, the ship is docked in Guam, and the captain is calling for the Navy to fix this problem for him.

15 days ago they didn't understand the risk of even one case coming on board?

What is it about Vietnam that brings out such poor judgement by our military?

[jon_norstog]

Man, when sailors go ashore they catch diseases! Vietnam, Punta Arenas, Mazatlan, Curacao, that's the way it has always been. VD mostly. The Coronavirus, you don't want it on shipboard at all cause it spreads like wildfire.. I don't know about on a CVA, but the ships I servd on the berthing areas were packed, sailors in racks 3 high and barely enough room to get in and out when your watch came up.

If it were my ship I'd spread the men out at least, and try to get some extra HMs and doctors assigned.

jn

[Jiminvirginia]

Served twice on that ship. Absolutley zero chance of any form of "social distancing". Captain now wants the entire crew off for a proper quarantine and to sanitize the ship. I would agree with that plan.

[jmm03]

Was the skipper unaware of the global pandemic? Sort of got to wonder about the wisdom of liberty in an asian port when the ship was at sea to begin with and completely isolated... Jim

[IditarodJoe]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

[togor]

What jmm said. By mid March it's not hindsight.

[jon_norstog]

Here's the latest on the cva TR. Looks like the Navy is taking this seriously and doing what they can to keep the whole crew from getting sick.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52128199


jn

[Jiminvirginia]

Read somewhere else that the Captain might get relieved. Frankly, IMO, the memo he wrote should have been classified.

- - - Updated - - -

The Captain might get relieved

[JohnPeeff]

Togor, the Captain was relieved today.

[S.A. Boggs]

Togor, the Captain was relieved today.

$5 bucks says the President has his eye on this event.
Sam

[togor]

Togor, the Captain was relieved today.

I saw that. The slant was for letting news of this get out. I hope that isn't the case, "shooting the messenger", but it might be.

To me the bad judgement was the port call in the first place.

Maybe it was a combination of the two, which would be fair. IMO a captain who puts his own chestnuts in the fire then asks HQ to pull them out, can expect to be relieved. The main thing at this point is to keep the crew healthy.

[Dolt]

Read somewhere else that the Captain might get relieved. Frankly, IMO, the memo he wrote should have been classified.

- - - Updated - - -

The Captain might get relieved

Agree. It is a military, if not a national security matter.

[m1ashooter]

The send off of the Captain. Not every crew shows up like this.

https://youtu.be/mPCx4xP6Sos

[togor]

How strange to see a crowd like that! So packed together!

[rayg]

Lol :icon_e_surprised: must not have got the 6 yrd word, good observation Togor,

[shadycon]

Lol :icon_e_surprised: must not have got the 6 yrd word, good observation Togor,

http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?71690-Social-distancing

[Conductor]

Ref the port call: The Carrier Group Commander, RADM Stuart (Studa) Baker was on board the TR. No port call could have been made without his authorization.
Also, no port call in any foreign country could have been made without the authorization of the Deputy CNO for Operations.

[jmm03]

Even worse lack of judgement it seems, or am I missing something here? Jim

[jon_norstog]

The bigger question here is what is happening on ships and in barracks throughout the US military? The Pentagon has put a lid on all public reporting, so we can only guess. Will privates and seaman deuces get a court-martial for sending messages to their families? How is the military going to maintain readiness if 10-20% of force is incapacitated at the peak?

jn

[Former Cav]

haven't you guys ever heard of "hot racks"
for those who don't know:
you have a crew of 120. 40 are on duty, 40 a in the day room writing letters, reading etc, 40 are sleeping in the HOT rack.
when the SHIFT changes, 40 from duty go to the day room, the day room guys go to the hot rack, the hot rack guys go on duty.
If you get a bug in those close quarters...it will spread like wildfire.
As for the captain, he should have followed his chain of command and kept it classified and encoded!!
Don't advertise to the Chinese that they can disable our military so easily!!!!!!!!!!
remember the old WW2 saying: "loose lips sink ships"

[Cosine26]

There are many more captains than there are captain billets particularly in the carrier world. FUMO.
As a former member of SAC, I remember Iron A$$'s LeMay's mantra:
" I refuse to accept the difference between the incompetent and the unfortunate for the results are always the same- failure!"
Having served in the Navy during WWII and worked with and for the Navy for over 30 years I would have been surprised if the CO had not been relieved.
Recently a F/A 18 squadron commander who was serving as the RIO on a F/A 18 was relieved because the pilot made a stupid maneuver.
QED

[Cosine26]

CO of Theodore Roosevelt
Let me present the Theodore Roosevelt situation in a more succinct manner. The CO of the TR transmitted, intentionally, unintentionally or carelessly, Information through non secure communications (it was leaked to the press) information that indicated that there was a problem on one of the main weapons system of the Pacific Feet. There was the distinct possibility/probability that the problem was so serious that it may and could have escalated to the point that a major element of the USN in addition to the Pacific Fleet was ineffective. A nuclear powered air craft carrier is one of the most complex weapons system, in a very compact complex package. Confinement of personnel (while not as compact as the WWII cruisers on which I served) makes separation not an option.
It has not been released which crew members were disabled, but there are few unimportant positions on a nuclear carrier.
Had ADMR Halsley (in the clear) transmitted that his fleet had been severely damaged by typhoons in the Pacific in WWII, the Japanese Navy could have taken advantage of the situation and prolonged the Pacific War.
Maintaining secrecy in these tumultuous time id of prime importance.
IMHO
FWIW

[jon_norstog]

My own thought is that it was policy that sent that ship to Da Nang, to show the flag in the South China Sea. Orders came down the chain of command, through CNO and there was a flag officer on board. There is plenty of blame to go round. I'm not going to argue about the email 'cause the facts are less than clear. I did listen to Acting Secretary Modley's speech and have to say he covered himself and the Navy with something other than glory. That whiney, nasal, prep-school voice, and th stuff he said. He did get a reaction from the sailors.

He needs to get back to the private sector.

jn

[S.A. Boggs]

My own thought is that it was policy that sent that ship to Da Nang, to show the flag in the South China Sea. Orders came down the chain of command, through CNO and there was a flag officer on board. There is plenty of blame to go round. I'm not going to argue about the email 'cause the facts are less than clear. I did listen to Acting Secretary Modley's speech and have to say he covered himself and the Navy with something other than glory. That whiney, nasal, prep-school voice, and th stuff he said. He did get a reaction from the sailors.

He needs to get back to the private sector.

jn
He probably will!
Sam

[S.A. Boggs]

He probably will!
Sam

Reports he resigned today.
Sam

[togor]

Time to hire another temp.

Maybe these folks can help.

https://www.kellyservices.us/us/business_services/placement-options/staffing-solutions/temporary-staffing-expertise/

[Cosine26]

Without comments here is an analyse of the Crozier memo:
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2020/04/07/the_crozier_memo_an_analysis_115179.html
FWIW

[Roadkingtrax]

His (former) crew is getting help. Nothing else to know.

He's put more on the line than most anyone in favor or in opposition of his actions.

[Cosine26]

31 Mar 2020
Stars and Stripes | By Corey Dickstein
WASHINGTON -- The Defense Department has ordered commanders at all of its installations worldwide to stop announcing publicly new coronavirus cases among their personnel, as the Pentagon said Monday that more than 1,000 U.S. military-linked people had been sickened by the virus.

The order issued by Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Friday is meant to protect operational security at the Defense Department's global installations, Jonathan Hoffman, the Pentagon's chief spokesman, said in a statement Monday. He said Defense Department leaders worried adversaries could exploit such information, especially if the data showed the outbreak impacted U.S. nuclear forces or other critical units.
FWIW

[Griff Murphey]

I don’t think it’s in any manual but I certainly heard it many times from our cadre ncos and officers when I was in ROTC:
MISSION BEFORE MEN!

[dryheat]

CO of Theodore Roosevelt
Let me present the Theodore Roosevelt situation in a more succinct manner. The CO of the TR transmitted, intentionally, unintentionally or carelessly, Information through non secure communications (it was leaked to the press) information that indicated that there was a problem on one of the main weapons system of the Pacific Feet. There was the distinct possibility/probability that the problem was so serious that it may and could have escalated to the point that a major element of the USN in addition to the Pacific Fleet was ineffective. A nuclear powered air craft carrier is one of the most complex weapons system, in a very compact complex package. Confinement of personnel (while not as compact as the WWII cruisers on which I served) makes separation not an option.
It has not been released which crew members were disabled, but there are few unimportant positions on a nuclear carrier.
Had ADMR Halsley (in the clear) transmitted that his fleet had been severely damaged by typhoons in the Pacific in WWII, the Japanese Navy could have taken advantage of the situation and prolonged the Pacific War.
Maintaining secrecy in these tumultuous time id of prime importance.
IMHO
FWIW

That is why they took Obama's Blackberry away from him. But that battle has been lost.
When push comes to shove,you do what you think you have to do. Not necessarily the right thing every time. A little panic not held down can result in bad decisions. The spastic reach for the cell phone is natural nowadays. There is a remedy for that. Did they not cover that at NAVAIRSCHL? I hope the former captain recovers from his cough.

[togor]

A few weeks ago I had hypothesized, to make a point, that better pandemic defense might be worth a couple of CVNs in terms of their contribution to national security. It was assumed by some, erroneously, that I was proposing some kind of swap. I wasn't. But this business with the TR illustrates that a pandemic can take ships out of the fleet. Which reinforces my original point, which is that if we're spending big money to protect the nation, some of that money should go to bio-defense in the future, because without it, the other weapons systems may be taken offline, and the country will be unprotected. Put another way, bio-defense is right up there with the Navy as the first line now.

[lyman]

A few weeks ago I had hypothesized, to make a point, that better pandemic defense might be worth a couple of CVNs in terms of their contribution to national security. It was assumed by some, erroneously, that I was proposing some kind of swap. I wasn't. But this business with the TR illustrates that a pandemic can take ships out of the fleet. Which reinforces my original point, which is that if we're spending big money to protect the nation, some of that money should go to bio-defense in the future, because without it, the other weapons systems may be taken offline, and the country will be unprotected. Put another way, bio-defense is right up there with the Navy as the first line now.

link?

[togor]

link?

Sure, go ahead. But the point, that pandemic defense is moving up fast as a national priority, seems obvious enough regardless.

[lyman]

you said you mentioned,,,, so please show us a link to prove your greatness

[togor]

you said you mentioned,,,, so please show us a link to prove your greatness

http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?71641-Ah-so-the-Dems-win-again

Posts 23 and 25.

Added: I see you use the Royal "Us" now. The only one who had an issue was you. Then and now.

[lyman]

http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?71641-Ah-so-the-Dems-win-again

Posts 23 and 25.

Added: I see you use the Royal "Us" now. The only one who had an issue was you. Then and now.

just cause I am the one that asked, doesn't mean others did not want to know,

getting defensive again,

- - - Updated - - -

thanks for the link,


didja ever ask your kid about the question asked at the end of the thread?

[togor]

Yes I did ask your question. Answer is: don't know. My kid is a resident, just getting started. The how's and whys of hospital placement above pay grade. At this point just about working somewhere (for a social worker's salary) that affords the kind of training a doctor seeks to advance their career.

[lyman]

Yes I did ask your question. Answer is: don't know. My kid is a resident, just getting started. The how's and whys of hospital placement above pay grade. At this point just about working somewhere (for a social worker's salary) that affords the kind of training a doctor seeks to advance their career.

no, you did not (you did not post after I posted what to discuss)

, but since your kid is a resident, he , like you said, likely has no access to the bureaucratic part of the planning process,


I did read elsewhere, and IIRC, Tsimonetti mentioned it as well in a post, that in NY, the state regulates how many and where Hospitals can be built,


betting after this pandemic is all said and done, that process may be revisited and changed a bit

[togor]

Yes I asked your question, but did not post a reply until your follow-up above. I gave you the reply now, and if you want to ding me for tardiness go ahead. Hopefully won't affect my final grade (probably getting a F in jouster2.com anyways)

[lyman]

Yes I asked your question, but did not post a reply until your follow-up above. I gave you the reply now, and if you want to ding me for tardiness go ahead. Hopefully won't affect my final grade (probably getting a F in jouster2.com anyways)

tissues,, aisle 6,

be sure to dot you eyes, not rub them

[togor]

Feel free to contribute to a thread, mod.

[lyman]

Feel free to contribute to a thread, mod.

last word,,