Canary and the coal mine

[S.A. Boggs]

I have observed people going about their daily life without the use of protection against CV19 and I ponder why? Some feel invincible, other's state about the inconvenience or too hot to wear. To me these are the walking dead of today, cemetery residence of tomorrow. One thing for certain, this apathy will most certainly cleanse the gene population.
Sam

[dryheat]

-I'd eat **** before I'd drive a Jap truck- It takes some getting used to. It will reduce the population of people. Cleansing takes thought and direction. Your not an epidemiologist. I'd eat **** before I'd walk around with a mask on all day. Screw NY. I'll move to Montana. If it gets up there well then I guess it was God's will or something. Remember Harry Truman, the guy who refused to leave Mt. St. Helen's? That shows some style.

[gwp]

I have observed people going about their daily life without the use of protection against CV19 and I ponder why? Some feel invincible, other's state about the inconvenience or too hot to wear. To me these are the walking dead of today, cemetery residence of tomorrow. One thing for certain, this apathy will most certainly cleanse the gene population.
SamI talked to my oncologist several weeks ago about the effectiveness of surgical masks after he told me twice not to touch my face. He said the government says it is a good practice so he would not go against that, but when he shops he does not wear a mask or gloves. He did say he washes his hands before leaving the store and he changes his clothing in the garage before entering his home. He also washes his hands after putting the groceries away. He said washing your hands frequently and not touching your face is very important.

[S.A. Boggs]

After surviving two types of stage 4 cancer I have become a coward regarding my survival. To trust some of the government "experts" IMHO can be problematic for my survival. I remember all of the warnings about salt and then the reversal of the regard. For myself wearing a respirator is not problematic. At the clinic we had a great deal of infectious control information that we were required to learn. The majority of my clients had some type of issues up to and including AIDS so I am cautious.
Sam

[lyman]

After surviving two types of stage 4 cancer I have become a coward regarding my survival. To trust some of the government "experts" IMHO can be problematic for my survival. I remember all of the warnings about salt and then the reversal of the regard. For myself wearing a respirator is not problematic. At the clinic we had a great deal of infectious control information that we were required to learn. The majority of my clients had some type of issues up to and including AIDS so I am cautious.
Sam

you need to do what makes you comfortable and feel safe,


the rest will do the same,


however ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers as to what makes them feel safe

[clintonhater]

After surviving two types of stage 4 cancer I have become a coward regarding my survival.

Then you have a legit excuse--the majority of the idiots wearing masks while walking alone outdoors, or working in their own yards, or even while driving, do not...except the combination of cowardice & stupidity they were born with. Being "safe" does not require being stupid.

[clintonhater]

...he changes his clothing in the garage before entering his home.

Jeez, that's more extreme than wearing a mask! Makes no sense at all if he's washing his hands frequently--if the virus can impregnate his clothes, why would it not at the same time be inhaled into his lungs while he was in the contaminated environment? Even a MD can fall victim to irrational superstitions.

[gwp]

Jeez, that's more extreme than wearing a mask! Makes no sense at all if he's washing his hands frequently--if the virus can impregnate his clothes, why would it not at the same time be inhaled into his lungs while he was in the contaminated environment? Even a MD can fall victim to irrational superstitions.He is a doctor working at the VA. He has a wife and small children that remain home. He does that to keep any contamination away from his family. He is required to wear a mask at the VA.

[Carbine64]

Not wearing any protection at this time when we go out,when we get home we wash our hands.We only had two cases in our county and both are home and recovered from the virus.So at this time not concerned with catching it.

[shadycon]

He is a doctor working at the VA. He has a wife and small children that remain home. He does that to keep any contamination away from his family. He is required to wear a mask at the VA.

Maybe he doesn't want to bring work home!:1948:

[lyman]

Jeez, that's more extreme than wearing a mask! Makes no sense at all if he's washing his hands frequently--if the virus can impregnate his clothes, why would it not at the same time be inhaled into his lungs while he was in the contaminated environment? Even a MD can fall victim to irrational superstitions.

I know several folks that are working, (not Dr's) that do similar,

one guy I work with has a laundry room right as he enters from his garage,

he takes off his shoes in the garage, pants and shirt as well and tossed them in a basket,
after a couple days, he washes the basket load,

[clintonhater]

I know several folks that are working, (not Dr's) that do similar,

one guy I work with has a laundry room right as he enters from his garage,

he takes off his shoes in the garage, pants and shirt as well and tossed them in a basket,
after a couple days, he washes the basket load,

Well, no surprise in this time of media-inflamed hysteria. But ask them, "If the virus has attached itself to your clothing, why hasn't it attached itself inside your respiratory tract?" An ordinary mask, if that's what these crack-brains are wearing, won't stop the virus!

[PWC]

What about wiping down the milk and stuff that goes in the frige? Wash vegies too.

Last time I had an operation, the only people wearing masks weren't me. They wore them to keep a sterile field to protect me. There was nothing inside me that would hurt them.

That's why "they" say the mask is to protect others, and it really isn't all that effective for the wearer.

[clintonhater]

What about wiping down the milk and stuff that goes in the frige?

Absolutely--don't stop at only partial craziness, go all the way!





That's why "they" say the mask is to protect others, and it really isn't all that effective for the wearer.

It isn't--it's to protect others if YOU are coughing; which is why people with even a cold or any condition causing coughing have for many yrs been expected to wear a mask in public in Japan & Singapore, & get harassed by people around them if they don't.

[rayg]

The mask keeps you from touching your face transferring germs on your hands to your face.

[PWC]

What about wiping down the milk and stuff that goes in the frige? Wash vegies too..

I guess you have a sanitary trunk or P/U bed. Anything that is cold cold will sweat and pick up whatever it is set in (fuzz, dirt, dog hair..when's the last time you went to the dump?)

Safeway , after being "acquired" by Kroger, quit putting gallon milk nxxxxx OJ, iced tea in bags/sacks, but they will ONLY if you ask them to. Your shopping experience may be dIfferent.

[Vern Humphrey]

-I'd eat **** before I'd drive a Jap truck- It takes some getting used to. It will reduce the population of people. Cleansing takes thought and direction. Your not an epidemiologist. I'd eat **** before I'd walk around with a mask on all day. Screw NY. I'll move to Montana. If it gets up there well then I guess it was God's will or something. Remember Harry Truman, the guy who refused to leave Mt. St. Helen's? That shows some style.

But Harry Truman only risked his own life. If you move to Montana carrying the virus with you, what then?

[lyman]

Well, no surprise in this time of media-inflamed hysteria. But ask them, "If the virus has attached itself to your clothing, why hasn't it attached itself inside your respiratory tract?" An ordinary mask, if that's what these crack-brains are wearing, won't stop the virus!

it's what makes them feel safe, and they are convinced it will help,

not for me to burst that bubble,

- - - Updated - - -


I guess you have a sanitary trunk or P/U bed. Anything that is cold cold will sweat and pick up whatever it is set in (fuzz, dirt, dog hair..when's the last time you went to the dump?)

Safeway , after being "acquired" by Kroger, quit putting gallon milk nxxxxx OJ, iced tea in bags/sacks, but they will ONLY if you ask them to. Your shopping experience may be dIfferent.


kroger called that Strive for Five, as in a minimum of 5 items per bag, but Eight was Great, if you could get eight to fit,


once had a guy, his title was ROS (Retail Ops Superintendent) , we naturally called him a POS,,

anyway, he set up some product on a register at a meeting and showed all us Store Managers how to pack a bag,,

it a paper bag, and square and tight, and he managed to fit a pile of stuff in it,

of course,, the customer does buy all the same stuff, or want you , or that kid bagger, to stand there for a few minutes trying to get each item in the bag like a puzzle,,,,

[PWC]

I went to work as a bagger for Kroger in 1960, and worked as stocker and in produce. Part of the bagger training was how to bag the 50 lb (large), 25 lb and 5 lb paper bags. They did say to bag for the customer, ie. Little old ladies don't carry heavy bags. Ice cream always went in a plastic bag, and any cold stuff always went in a sack, except ice. 60 years later I still have a deformed half moon on my right thumbnail because a helpfull little old lady closed her car's back door on my thumb.

[clintonhater]

it's what makes them feel safe, and they are convinced it will help,

not for me to burst that bubble,



Went to grocery store yesterday. Checker wearing mask & gloves, plus a big plastic screen between me & her. Laid my canvas shopping bag on counter, but she said she wasn't allowed to touch it even with gloves, so I'd have to fill it myself, which I prefer anyway because I ALWAYS do a better job than the checkers. Was tempted to ask her if the items I'd bought had been sanitized, but of course realized this craziness was not her choice. In this state, throw-away plastic bags had recently been banned, halleluiah!, but this panic has precipitated a return to the old throw-away culture.

[Vern Humphrey]

Went to grocery store yesterday. Checker wearing mask & gloves, plus a big plastic screen between me & her. Laid my canvas shopping bag on counter, but she said she wasn't allowed to touch it even with gloves, so I'd have to fill it myself, which I prefer anyway because I ALWAYS do a better job than the checkers. Was tempted to ask her if the items I'd bought had been sanitized, but of course realized this craziness was not her choice. In this state, throw-away plastic bags had recently been banned, halleluiah!, but this panic has precipitated a return to the old throw-away culture.

There's a story in this month's Discover magazine about how cloth bags are a loser -- takes more energy to make them than you'll ever recoup. Throwaway plastic bags are better for the environment -- especially if you return them to the recycling bin.

[clintonhater]

Throwaway plastic bags are better for the environment -- especially if you return them to the recycling bin.

That's bullxxxx, Vern. Most recycling operations won't even accept plastic bags because (so they say) they clog up the conveyor belts used in recycling operations. I once tried stuffing them into larger plastic containers, & was forced to remove them!

I'd cancel my subscription to that mag, because energy consumption in manufacture is the LEAST of the environmental problems caused by plastic bags. What you need to do is walk down any public road & pick up every one you find in the roadside ditch; I'll exempt you from chasing down all those blown off into the woods, fields, or streams, hung up in trees, etc., because retrieving even a fraction of those would kill you.

[lyman]

That's bullxxxx, Vern. Most recycling operations won't even accept plastic bags because (so they say) they clog up the conveyor belts used in recycling operations. I once tried stuffing them into larger plastic containers, & was forced to remove them!

I'd cancel my subscription to that mag, because energy consumption in manufacture is the LEAST of the environmental problems caused by plastic bags. What you need to do is walk down any public road & pick up every one you find in the roadside ditch; I'll exempt you from chasing down all those blown off into the woods, fields, or streams, hung up in trees, etc., because retrieving even a fraction of those would kill you.

well, speaking for both of my former employers,

when you recycle the bags at the grocer,, they send them back (called Salvage) to the whse and they are recycled,

we bag them up and sent back dozens on each salvage run (pallets, plastic etc that went back to the whse_)


poly fill,

more bags,

filler for archery targets etc,



and yes, our local recycler wants nothing to do with them , they want you to put them in the standard trash

[clintonhater]

well, speaking for both of my former employers,

when you recycle the bags at the grocer,, they send them back (called Salvage) to the whse and they are recycled,

we bag them up and sent back dozens on each salvage run (pallets, plastic etc that went back to the whse_)



poly fill,

more bags,

filler for archery targets etc,



and yes, our local recycler wants nothing to do with them , they want you to put them in the standard trash

Yes, what you describe is great, Lyman, but what percentage of all the bags used are recycled that way? Judging from what I see while driving, or when walking in some fields with my dogs along the highway, it's not great. One of these big hay fields is at least 1000 yds wide, & I see bags hung up in brush on the far side from the road! It would be preferable, I admit, simply to KILL all those throwing them out their car windows, as they deserve, & allow responsible folk to continue using them, but until that becomes possible (killing those MFs, I mean), banning them is the best option.

[lyman]

Yes, what you describe is great, Lyman, but what percentage of all the bags used are recycled that way? Judging from what I see while driving, or when walking in some fields with my dogs along the highway, it's not great. One of these big hay fields is at least 1000 yds wide, & I see bags hung up in brush on the far side from the road! It would be preferable, I admit, simply to KILL all those throwing them out their car windows, as they deserve, & allow responsible folk to continue using them, but until that becomes possible (killing those MFs, I mean), banning them is the best option.

not many, surely,

I wanna say a box of bags, (Plastic) was 3000,,, or maybe 5000,,


packed tight in a box,

how many made it back in the recycle bin and then to the warehouse? I would bet 25% would be a high number,


funny thing too about recycle bins,, folks don't read the labels on the bins, so they are often found full of trash,,


and sometimes that clerk the empties the bins will toss the recycle in the trash as well,

[PWC]

Those that do go free-astray breakdown in sunlight (UV) and ozone.

[clintonhater]

Those that do go free-astray breakdown in sunlight (UV) and ozone.

BULLSHAT!!! In maybe 50 yrs, if not longer. Furthermore, those that get covered by grass or leaves aren't exposed to sunlight. Have you ever in your life participated in a roadside clean-up?

[Vern Humphrey]

That's bullxxxx, Vern. Most recycling operations won't even accept plastic bags because (so they say) they clog up the conveyor belts used in recycling operations. I once tried stuffing them into larger plastic containers, & was forced to remove them!
That's funny. There's a recycling bin for plastic bags by the front door of every Wal Mart in the country.


I'd cancel my subscription to that mag, because energy consumption in manufacture is the LEAST of the environmental problems caused by plastic bags. What you need to do is walk down any public road & pick up every one you find in the roadside ditch; I'll exempt you from chasing down all those blown off into the woods, fields, or streams, hung up in trees, etc., because retrieving even a fraction of those would kill you.
That's funny. My church has adopted a mile of highway, and we walk down it periodically, picking up trash. We're not over-taxed picking up plastic bags.

[Roadkingtrax]

Come on Vern, you know those go under the sink...and line the trash cans in the bathroom.

[lyman]

Come on Vern, you know those go under the sink...and line the trash cans in the bathroom.

yep, got a bag full of bags under the bathroom sink,,,

[Vern Humphrey]

yep, got a bag full of bags under the bathroom sink,,,

Take the extras to Wal Mart and leave them in the recycling bin.

[clintonhater]

Take the extras to Wal Mart and leave them in the recycling bin.
You'll be shocked to hear this, Vern, but not everyone lives by & through Walmart. Nearest one to me is almost 50 m., but that's not why I haven't been inside one, or any similar giant store, in over a dozen yrs.; nothing inside any of them is worth the aggravation of parking, crowds, & the AHs impossible to avoid inside. What I can't find in my local stores or on-line, I can live without.

Walmart wanted to place a store in the nearest big small town around here, 20 m. away, but they insisted on building a super-store, not a smaller one as the town wanted, so they were refused a permit. I'm SO glad, because a few yrs later Tractor Supply built a store in the same location; I love it! If it were a little closer, I'd be tempted to go there everyday just to walk around & listen to the baby ducks & chicks they have this time of yr & listen to the country music radio station played on their PA. What do you hear in your Walmart?

[Vern Humphrey]

You'll be shocked to hear this, Vern, but not everyone lives by & through Walmart. Nearest one to me is almost 50 m., but that's not why I haven't been inside one, or any similar giant store, in over a dozen yrs.; nothing inside any of them is worth the aggravation of parking, crowds, & the AHs impossible to avoid inside. What I can't find in my local stores or on-line, I can live without.

Walmart wanted to place a store in the nearest big small town around here, 20 m. away, but they insisted on building a super-store, not a smaller one as the town wanted, so they were refused a permit. I'm SO glad, because a few yrs later Tractor Supply built a store in the same location; I love it! If it were a little closer, I'd be tempted to go there everyday just to walk around & listen to the baby ducks & chicks they have this time of yr & listen to the country music radio station played on their PA. What do you hear in your Walmart?
What does this mean?

You said plastic bags can't be recycled. I told you where you can leave plastic bags to be recycled -- not where to shop, listen to music or see baby ducks.

[clintonhater]

What does this mean?

You said plastic bags can't be recycled. I told you where you can leave plastic bags to be recycled

Among other things, it means I'm not (nor anybody in their right mind) driving a round trip of 100 miles to recycle them. Luckily, I don't NEED to recycle them because for many yrs I've been using my own canvas shopping bags, or, once in a while, paying 5 cents for a paper bag which I need for trash anyway. Also, both grocery stores in the nearest town sell cheap cloth bags for about $2.

But the reason they've been banned in several states is NOT because there's no nearby Walmart or other place to recycle them, it's because of the many who use their car window, a parking lot or other public place, etc. as their recycling center.

[Vern Humphrey]

Among other things, it means I'm not (nor anybody in their right mind) driving a round trip of 100 miles to recycle them. Luckily, I don't NEED to recycle them because for many yrs I've been using my own canvas shopping bags, or, once in a while, paying 5 cents for a paper bag which I need for trash anyway. Also, both grocery stores in the nearest town sell cheap cloth bags for about $2.

But the reason they've been banned in several states is NOT because there's no nearby Walmart or other place to recycle them, it's because of the many who use their car window, a parking lot or other public place, etc. as their recycling center.

And no other form of trash is left behind by those people?

[clintonhater]

And no other form of trash is left behind by those people?

Of course not, but, unlike, for ex., the used diapers scumbags dump by the road & elsewhere (I've picked up dozens of them when doing the roadside cleanup my Fish & Game Club carries out every year), plastic bags have the ability to "fly" hundreds of yards from wherever they were thrown out; that's why I see them way off the roads, & in the rivers that many of the roads where I live have to follow to avoid the mountains.

[Vern Humphrey]

Of course not, but, unlike, for ex., the used diapers scumbags dump by the road & elsewhere (I've picked up dozens of them when doing the roadside cleanup my Fish & Game Club carries out every year), plastic bags have the ability to "fly" hundreds of yards from wherever they were thrown out; that's why I see them way off the roads, & in the rivers that many of the roads where I live have to follow to avoid the mountains.

But have you read the article in Discover? They make a damn good case taht cloth bags are a net loss -- not to mention the fact that in many places cloth bags are now prohibited because they can transmit the Corona Virus.

[clintonhater]

But have you read the article in Discover? They make a damn good case taht cloth bags are a net loss -- not to mention the fact that in many places cloth bags are now prohibited because they can transmit the Corona Virus.

Net loss where? I've never see a cloth bag thrown out on the road. Every one of the three canvas bags I use are at least 20 yrs old with no sign of wearing out. The handle of one ripped off, so I sewed it back on. You refuse to acknowledge the main reason they have been banned--trashing the environment; starting to look like this simply isn't something you worry about. Millions of them wind up in the ocean where they kill all sorts of marine life when they're swallowed. All this to spare people the "inconvenience" of buying a cheap cloth bag, which, if you forget it, can be bought in the store you're shopping in?

[Vern Humphrey]

Net loss where? I've never see a cloth bag thrown out on the road. Every one of the three canvas bags I use are at least 20 yrs old with no sign of wearing out. The handle of one ripped off, so I sewed it back on. You refuse to acknowledge the main reason they have been banned--trashing the environment; starting to look like this simply isn't something you worry about. Millions of them wind up in the ocean where they kill all sorts of marine life when they're swallowed. All this to spare people the "inconvenience" of buying a cheap cloth bag, which, if you forget it, can be bought in the store you're shopping in?

Read the article -- "In 2018 the Danish Environmental Protection Agency put together a big assessment of the environmental impacts of different types of shopping bags . . .paper bags and plastic based bags required between 35 and 84 re-uses. A cotton tote, though, had to be re-used 7,100 times."

In other words, if you used your cotton tote EVERY day, you'd have to use it about 19 1/2 years to offset the environmental impact.

[lyman]

Take the extras to Wal Mart and leave them in the recycling bin.

we use them as disposable trash can liners for the small trash can in the bathroom,,,,

[S.A. Boggs]

Kroger's has paper bags which I use for other things. These bags when cut make excellent silhouette 3/4 targets.
Sam

[lyman]

Read the article -- "In 2018 the Danish Environmental Protection Agency put together a big assessment of the environmental impacts of different types of shopping bags . . .paper bags and plastic based bags required between 35 and 84 re-uses. A cotton tote, though, had to be re-used 7,100 times."

In other words, if you used your cotton tote EVERY day, you'd have to use it about 19 1/2 years to offset the environmental impace.

I think you are looking at that wrong,

maybe,


meanwhile, there have been studies that show how nasty are reusable shopping bag can get,

[Vern Humphrey]

we use them as disposable trash can liners for the small trash can in the bathroom,,,,

So do we -- in fact we line several trash cans with them. I also line a coat pocket with them, so I can carry carrots and apples for the horses.

[Former Cav]

I used to use them to pick up dog waste back when we had a dog.
too bad I didn't save all that dog waste to send off to pelosi

[Vern Humphrey]

I used to use them to pick up dog waste back when we had a dog.
too bad I didn't save all that dog waste to send off to pelosi

She'd have thought it was perfume.

[PWC]

I don't care for plastic bags, but in all places except the commissary, that is the only choice. State and city landfill says NOT to put in recycle, so they go into the white kitchen garbage bags or the green yard bags. I get paper when I can because I make fewer trips to unload at home, and they stand by themselves when I dump stuff in them.

I don't understand the Danish conclusion you state. Having lived in Europe for a little while, I believe what's missing is how often someone shops. Europeans don't shop like Americans; fill the car once a week or every other week. They shop every 2-3 days, and most I saw used thier own totes. Using a cloth bag for 9 1/2 yrs would seem to obviate the use of 7100 single-use-then-throw-away bags, of which less than 30% get repurposed, I feel, but could be wrong.

I'm sure CH will have some eloquently phrased rebuttel.

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't care for plastic bags, but in all places except the commissary, that is the only choice. State and city landfill says NOT to put in recycle, so they go into the white kitchen garbage bags or the green yard bags. I get paper when I can because I make fewer trips to unload at home, and they stand by themselves when I dump stuff in them.

I don't understand the Danish conclusion you state. Having lived in Europe for a little while, I believe what's missing is how often someone shops. Europeans don't shop like Americans; fill the car once a week or every other week. They shop every 2-3 days, and most I saw used thier own totes. Using a cloth bag for 9 1/2 yrs would seem to obviate the use of 7100 single-use-then-throw-away bags, of which less than 30% get repurposed, I feel, but could be wrong.

I'm sure CH will have some eloquently phrased rebuttel.

The point of the article was that if you add up the energy, pollution, etc., associated with using bags. you have to use the cloth bag 7,100 times before you would have less impact on the environment than if you used plastic. Remember, cotton has to be grown -- with plowing, fertilizing, etc. That has to be figured into the equation.

[PWC]

If you are going back to the land for the cotton tote, then you have to do the same for plastic.

Plastic is s petro byproduct.....well has to be drilled (That alone would cover the cost of farming at least 2 years of cotton cropping a 1K acre farm.) Refinery cost, raw chemicals processing, may be close to ginning, spinning and weaving costs, I don't know. I do know there are a lot of spun polymer 'totes' hanging on racks near store's points of sale. Cotton totes are hi-end. Reusable totes are more cost efficient than one-time-use, which DOES have its place in use.

[Vern Humphrey]

If you are going back to the land for the cotton tote, then you have to do the same for plastic.

Plastic is s petro byproduct.....well has to be drilled (That alone would cover the cost of farming at least 2 years of cotton cropping a 1K acre farm.) Refinery cost, raw chemicals processing, may be close to ginning, spinning and weaving costs, I don't know. I do know there are a lot of spun polymer 'totes' hanging on racks near store's points of sale. Cotton totes are hi-end.

That's what the study did -- factored everything in the chain to arrive at a result.

It's kind of like electric cars -- there's no pollution coming out of the exhaust pipe. But go and look at what's coming out of the smokestack at the power plant.

[clintonhater]

The point of the article was that if you add up the energy, pollution, etc., associated with using bags. you have to use the cloth bag 7,100 times before you would have less impact on the environment than if you used plastic.

Reusable bags have NO impact on the environment compared to the way in which throw-away plastic bags are most often misused--by either throwing them away deliberately, or carelessly letting them blow away. Why do you think several states have banned them, despite ferocious, well-funded, opposition from all the retailers using them?

[S.A. Boggs]

They make great water bombs!
Sam

[Vern Humphrey]

Reusable bags have NO impact on the environment compared to the way in which throw-away plastic bags are most often misused--by either throwing them away deliberately, or carelessly letting them blow away. Why do you think several states have banned them, despite ferocious, well-funded, opposition from all the retailers using them?

That's not what the Danish study showed.